Tajapooh

All major religions have sects; I would like to set up a new organized sect for secularists. I feel our world view is currently endangered, and I would like to belong to an organization that can stand face to face with other major belief systems and get some respect based on number of members.

I have the utmost respect for the existing Secular Humanist organization, but I see two possible improvements:
1. In general, secular humanist chapters have little vitality. Perhaps because they lack the attractive features of the 'tribal' religious organizational model - e.g. family support/schooling, celebratory rites, social focus for like-minded people and activists, and (of course) weekly potluck lunches. None of these things are bad, especially as humans are, I think, genetically doomed to prefer tribal organizations.
2. Secular Humanism carries a long skeptic tradition that, while valuable, imparts a critical and negative aura to the organization. To recruit members from the vast quiet secular hordes out there that currently have no voice, this new sect must be upbeat.

I would like to see a new secular sect which celebrates and reveres life in all its forms. Many people sense a spiritual tie to other living things. Eventually science may uncover an electromagnetic field-sensing organ that allows us to experience low-level interactions with other life forms; I'm willing to call this a 'spiritual' link for now.

There are many issues to be resolved in creating such a sect. Where to come down on the question of ethics? Praying is a useful tool for adjusting minds to accept solutions to problems - is it possible to practice prayer secularly? etc.

However, I think the most important question is this: is it possible to create a VITAL secular sect, or is a belief system devoid of personal God intrinsically 'juiceless'? I think people need to feel that their 'church' provides a powerful method to align themselves with goodness - can secularism do that?

This is obviously territory that others have walked before. But please, let's not get bogged down in dismissive references and semantic bonepicking - I'm interested in your own reactions to the basic idea. Apologies if this duplicates other threads.

Amie

Hi Tajapooh
secular prayer? hmmm who or what would you be praying *to*?
I don't think its possible to create a vital secular sect but I would not say that a belief system devoid of God would be juiceless. I agree that many people think their church can help them align themselves with goodness but more often ones church helps them with their relationship with God more than goodness. People are good with or without any God.

Tajapooh

Hi, Amie.

secular prayer? hmmm who or what would you be praying *to*?

one could envision something more like the 'practice' of Eastern religions. Something done not to relate to a God-figure, but to align yourself more closely with a state of mind or being.

I don't think its possible to create a vital secular sect

Interesting. Can you say why?

Philosoft

This here place is widely regarded as the standard-bearer of secular "churches."

Amie

Hi Tajapooh
sounds like meditation more than prayer, don't get me wrong I think meditation is beneficial to many. I myself am just completely unable to do it, I cant seem to quiet my thoughts but I do try on occassion. I pray everyday though so I guess for me you can say my time spent in prayer would be my meditation in a way...
Sure without any doctrinal creeds, a deity to worship, adhering to the precepts of religion I think it would more so be a club than anything, but not a sect. Sect seems to have a religious connotation to it however I do know thats not always the case as there are sects involving political and philosophical premises. I just saw that you mentioned prayer itself so i immediately thought "religion"
let me ask you though do you envision it to be a VITAL sect? if so what makes you think it could work. I am certainly open to the possibility that I could be wrong but I just don't think it would be possible to build. I do think the idea itself is a good one though...

you seem very pleasant, have you ever considered becoming a theist? its rather nice...come to the light, come...

I am merely kidding of course

Fiach

The whole idea of getting atheists and freethinkers into a group with a consensus agenda, creed-like manifesto, and hierarchy is what dooms the secular humanists. We sceptics are very much unlike religionists. They seek the comfort and reinforcement of like minded believers, they accept authority, do nots dissent, and most importantly the constant inter-reinforcement of beliefs that are not plausible. Atheists by contrast, are independent thinkers. We got here by not going along with the majority. Organising atheists is like herding cats.

An Atheist-Agnostic Church will not work. I suspect that a small minority of loney atheists flock to Secular Humanism and Unitarian-Universalism.

Amergin

Tajapooh

Fascinating, Amergin/Fiach.

If you visit the site given by Philosoft previously (thanks, Philosoft, most interesting) you will see an example of freethinkers who: "seek the comfort and reinforcement of like minded believers" as you rather condescendingly put it.

While skeptics are unlike religionists, I believe they are NOT unlike other humans. Humans seek community, and a group of like-minded, thinking, activist humans is a very powerful entity. My question is: is it possible to form a non-authoritarian, godless community which celebrates the natural world and our place as thinking beings within it? Perhaps this could be termed nouveau Transcendentalism, with a dash of skeptic edge.

May I also caution against painting religionists with too broad a brush. Many dissent actively within their faiths (ergo sects), and some religions (e.g. nonprogrammed Quakers) are not authoritarian. You are using the same method of sloppy generalization used by those theists who label freethinkers as amoral and therefore "Evil".

Oxymoron

Meditation, m'dear. Turning thoughts and feelings and ideas over in our heads whilst in a state of physical relaxation. Very useful. Nothing to do with Big Daddy.

Eudaimonist

It's being done already.



I can't promise you that this group will appeal to ALL secularists, but that's probably impossible anyway.

Eudaimonist

Yes, and I think the Fellowship of Reason (FOR) has already accomplished this to a good extent, though there always seems more to discover. Similar to secular humanist groups, FOR has a moral compass that provides its aim as an organization. It provides six methods for "aligning with goodness", as you put it, which are captured in the acronym CEFLOR.

Celebration (of significant life events, and one's values)
Enjoyment (of art)
Fellowship (with people engaged in similar self-improvement)
Learning (about ethics, philosophy, literature...)
Orientation (to one's chosen values)
Reflection (on one's life... Know thyself!)

There is a recent surge in attendees to their monthy Celebrations from outside the group. It is definitely drawing attention from other nontheists in the area.