Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Jimmy Higgins · 06-16-2002, 11:59 AM

I was thinking about potholes in rock. These playful things are formed under intense conditions. While I hiked along Niagara River, upstream from the whirlpools towards the falls, I came across numerous examples of holes in rock. A natural drill formed these as aggregate got stuck in a discontinuity. The force of the water made the aggregate spin like a drill all the way through to a point. Quite remarkable.

I was thinking about the pothole I saw by Albion Falls in Ontario. Rather deep, rather wide.

I'm wondering if Creationism has a rebuttal to potholes.

tgamble · 06-16-2002, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jimmy Higgins:
I was thinking about potholes in rock. These playful things are formed under intense conditions. While I hiked along Niagara River, upstream from the whirlpools towards the falls, I came across numerous examples of holes in rock. A natural drill formed these as aggregate got stuck in a discontinuity. The force of the water made the aggregate spin like a drill all the way through to a point. Quite remarkable.

I was thinking about the pothole I saw by Albion Falls in Ontario. Rather deep, rather wide.

I'm wondering if Creationism has a rebuttal to potholes.

How about:

That's the way God chose to make em you filthy lying atheist communist evilutionist scum! Now repent or burn in hell!

Blinn · 06-16-2002, 12:49 PM

There's a large one in the Hocking Hills of SE Ohio named <a href="http://www.hockinghills.com/parks/p_omc4.htm" target="_blank">Devil's Bathtub</a>.

[ June 16, 2002: Message edited by: Zetek ]

Jimmy Higgins · 06-16-2002, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zetek:
There's one a large one in the Hocking Hills of SE Ohio named "Devil's Bathtub."

Remarkable area, Hocking Hills is. Too bad those waterfalls are terrible for pictures. Very difficult to shot, but in person they are quite nice. Went there in April. Didn't see the bathtub, though. I think the devil has something up at Nelson's Ledges too. Satan gets around. I guess that is proof that geology is a trick of satan.

While I understand potholes are formed under intense conditions, I believe from what I've read about the Bruce Trail in Ontario, is that most potholes were formed because of glaciers. I just don't see, besides tgamble's intimate impersonation of a Creationist's point of view what model of a young-earth could form such things.

caritas · 06-16-2002, 02:58 PM

I have seen good pothole examples in Cheshire Co New Hamphire of both the glacial and river types. The former are in tiny Bear's Den State Park (?) in Gilsum while the latter are along a tributary of the Ashuelot River west of Keene. Both these sets of potholes are relatively small, comparable in size to currently forming holes I have seen along the edges of numerous white water streams (not waterfalls in these cases). While I'm not a geologist I could see plenty at the Ashuelot trib. severely at odds with YEC views.
1. The potholes are in Mica schist, a hard metamorphic rock.
2. As I remember, I live 3000 miles away now and havn't lived in NH for 14 years, these holes are about 30 feet high and dry above the current elev of the rapids.
3. There are similar sized active potholes down in the current stream.

It is not the size of potholes such as these which challenge any young earth interps. It is the clear evidence that much more than 10000 years would be needed to wear through 30 or so feet of mica schist.

Camaban · 06-16-2002, 03:07 PM

well, y'see, up to around the time that the first men found these potholes (first European men) the stones weren't stone at all, but a sort of soft sponge.

But the evil, gorgonic glance of those first men turned that sponge to stone.

isn't it obvious?

MrDarwin · 06-16-2002, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jimmy Higgins:
I'm wondering if Creationism has a rebuttal to potholes.

Why is any rebuttal necessary? Do you have any evidence regarding how old they are, or how long they take to form?

Blinn · 06-16-2002, 05:55 PM

Let me be the first to say "Welcome caritas"! I guess the place for newcomers to introduce themselves is <a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum&f=43" target="_blank">here</a> (although I've yet to do that myself). Please tell us a bit more about yourself, if you'd like. And again, welcome to II!

Jesus Tap-Dancin' Christ · 06-16-2002, 08:58 PM

DUH! The FLOOD! With that mass inundation, all the aggregate was at such a high velocity, it was able to carve out a large area really, really fast. Jeez, don't you evilutionists know ANYTHING?

06-16-2002, 11:59 AM	#1
Jimmy Higgins Contributor Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Proud Citizen of Freedonia Posts: 42,473	Geologic Potholes I was thinking about potholes in rock. These playful things are formed under intense conditions. While I hiked along Niagara River, upstream from the whirlpools towards the falls, I came across numerous examples of holes in rock. A natural drill formed these as aggregate got stuck in a discontinuity. The force of the water made the aggregate spin like a drill all the way through to a point. Quite remarkable. I was thinking about the pothole I saw by Albion Falls in Ontario. Rather deep, rather wide. I'm wondering if Creationism has a rebuttal to potholes.

06-16-2002, 12:49 PM	#3
Blinn Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Ohio, USA Posts: 1,162	There's a large one in the Hocking Hills of SE Ohio named <a href="http://www.hockinghills.com/parks/p_omc4.htm" target="_blank">Devil's Bathtub</a>. [ June 16, 2002: Message edited by: Zetek ]</p>

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06-16-2002, 02:58 PM	#5
caritas Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Tacoma, Wa Posts: 43	I have seen good pothole examples in Cheshire Co New Hamphire of both the glacial and river types. The former are in tiny Bear's Den State Park (?) in Gilsum while the latter are along a tributary of the Ashuelot River west of Keene. Both these sets of potholes are relatively small, comparable in size to currently forming holes I have seen along the edges of numerous white water streams (not waterfalls in these cases). While I'm not a geologist I could see plenty at the Ashuelot trib. severely at odds with YEC views. 1. The potholes are in Mica schist, a hard metamorphic rock. 2. As I remember, I live 3000 miles away now and havn't lived in NH for 14 years, these holes are about 30 feet high and dry above the current elev of the rapids. 3. There are similar sized active potholes down in the current stream. It is not the size of potholes such as these which challenge any young earth interps. It is the clear evidence that much more than 10000 years would be needed to wear through 30 or so feet of mica schist.

06-16-2002, 03:07 PM	#6
Camaban Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 473	well, y'see, up to around the time that the first men found these potholes (first European men) the stones weren't stone at all, but a sort of soft sponge. But the evil, gorgonic glance of those first men turned that sponge to stone. isn't it obvious?

06-16-2002, 05:55 PM	#8
Blinn Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Ohio, USA Posts: 1,162	Let me be the first to say "Welcome caritas"! I guess the place for newcomers to introduce themselves is <a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum&f=43" target="_blank">here</a> (although I've yet to do that myself). Please tell us a bit more about yourself, if you'd like. And again, welcome to II!

06-16-2002, 08:58 PM	#9
Jesus Tap-Dancin' Christ Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Heaven Posts: 6,980	DUH! The FLOOD! With that mass inundation, all the aggregate was at such a high velocity, it was able to carve out a large area really, really fast. Jeez, don't you evilutionists know ANYTHING?

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