Vorkosigan

<a href="http://pub22.ezboard.com/fgwnnfrm11.showMessageRange?topicID=330.topic&star t=21&stop=35" target="_blank">Challenging Atheism site & post</a>

Andrew_theist, whom some of you may recall from his debate and posting here, runs the Board above. The board is of low quality and I do not recommend it, but he has posted these as arguments for Bog.

This one:
<a href="http://www.pitt.edu/~pruss/god-exists.html" target="_blank">www.pitt.edu/~pruss/god-exists.html</a>

makes you read a lot of dull jargon before slipping in the whopper at premise 16, is the usual case of assuming the argument in the premises:

• The actual world’s universe displays a wondrous complexity due to its law-like unity and simplicity, fine tuning of natural constants, and natural purpose and beauty. Premise

It is hard to believe that any journal accepted that for publication with a flaw that gaping....someday I'll be shocked to discover a philosophical argument for theism that does not assume the conclusion in the premises.

This one is the oft-refuted Kalam from Wm. Craig:
<a href="http://www.leaderu.com/truth/3truth11.html" target="_blank">www.leaderu.com/truth/3truth11.html</a>

And this one is the argument that the universe is contingent, and so must there must be something that made it:
<a href="http://www.leaderu.com/offices/billcraig/docs/ultimatequestion.html" target="_blank">http://www.leaderu.com/offices/billcraig/docs/ultimatequestion.html</a>

The god of the gaps is indeed a powerful but ephemeral being; he can do anything until the gap is closed.

Old arguments all, but anyone who wants to rake over the ashes of this nonsense is welcome.

Vorkosigan

scumble

Well, there's nothing new there. Only a few standard arguements for God exist, and they all end up in the assumption that a particular God did the job.
The teleological arguments are a bit empty, because they can't tell anyone anything about the characteristics of the supposed Creator, except for some guesses based on the human idea of the sort of Creator who could create the universe.

By the way, this idea that the universe is "simple" is a bit naive. Studying Physics for several years hasn't made it any simpler for me!

[ April 23, 2002: Message edited by: scumble ]</p>