Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Toto · 02-07-2002, 10:30 AM

Here's a first amendment problem. In the wake of 9-11, a well meaning Muslim in LA arranged for the donation of 300 copies of a translation of the Qu'ran, "The Meaning of the Holy Quran". They were distributed to school libraries without the usual content review. A teacher has just noticed that some of the footnotes (not the Qu'ran itself) appear anti-Semitic.

It seems that the translation was done in the 1930's, and reflected the anti-Semitic views (as well as currently unacceptable stereotypes about women) of the time.

The books have been pulled while LA Unified tries to figure out what to do.

<a href="http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-000009525feb07.story" target="_blank">L.A. Unified: Officials pull translations of Koran that are deemed derogatory toward Jews.</a>

Quote:

...

One of the footnotes, for instance, said, "The Jews in their arrogance claimed that all wisdom and all knowledge of Allah was enclosed in their hearts. But there were more things in heaven and earth than were dreamt of in their philosophy. Their claim was not only arrogance but blasphemy."

Konantz said he is convening a committee to review the books. He said the panel will include history teachers, representatives from the Jewish community, and the donor, the Omar Ibn Khattab Foundation.

The decision is a thorny one because the Supreme Court has ruled that motive is critical in determining whether it is constitutional to remove a book from a school library.

USC constitutional law professor Erwin Chemerinsky said it would be discriminatory for L.A. Unified to stock books "written by Jews or Christians that express criticisms of other religions," but exclude books containing criticisms by Muslims.

...

Konantz said Dakhil met with him Tuesday and offered examples of passages in the Bible that Dakhil said were derogatory toward Muslims.

...

"In the spirit of Dafer, he was trying to increase tolerance and understanding," board member David Tokofsky said. "That's the person I know. It doesn't jibe that there would be such intolerant language."

Khaled Abou El Fadl, a UCLA Islamic law professor, said the book, a 1934 translation of the Koran, reflects the stereotypical images prevalent at the time--not only about Jews but also women.

Despite the problems, he said the translation is widely disseminated in the United States because Saudi-affiliated institutions make them available for free or at a nominal cost. Abou El Fadl said he believed use of the work was inappropriate for public schools because of its biases. Or, if used, an explanation of the historical context should be included, he said.

I don't see how members of one religious accusing another of blasphemy is anti-Semitic. It's just how monotheistic religions are. It's not like the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, which is based on libelous, false claims.

Are we going to censor Dante because he consigned Mohammed to Hell? Should we throw out the New Testament because of its charges against the Jews for refusing to accept Jesus?

Euromutt · 02-09-2002, 07:13 PM

Perhaps they should be issued, with the caveat that the footnotes illustrate to some extent why 11-Sep happened.
Of course, fairness would require pointing out the spotty track record for tolerance of other monotheistic faiths (and some others) as well...

tdaschel · 02-09-2002, 09:08 PM

...how did Hamlet get into a KooRahn footnote? i guess i shouldn't be *too* surprised as my Shakespeare prof (here at Bible College, USA!) is Libyan.

gallo · 02-10-2002, 09:45 AM

It is also interesting to note that Islam is the religion of most Arab peoples and that they are, as was Mohamed, semites.

emotional · 02-10-2002, 10:17 AM

You don't need commentary to tell that the Qur'an heaps vitriol on the Jews, it's in the plain text quite clearly. Some of it is reiteration of the rants of God against the "stiffnecked people" in the OT, and some are new accusations, such as calling the Jews al-qaum az-zaalimeen in Surat Al-Jum'ah (that one has a lot of insults: the Jews are compared to a donkey carrying books).

Muhammad, if historical narration about him is correct, was like Martin Luther in that he thought his reformed revelation would attract the Jews, and was heavily disappointed when they didn't convert to it.

If you want to get anti-Jewish sentiments out of Islam, you'll have to get the Qur'an out of Islam.

Toto · 02-10-2002, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gallo:
<strong>It is also interesting to note that Islam is the religion of most Arab peoples and that they are, as was Mohamed, semites.</strong>

The term "anti-Semitism" is misleading. It refers to anti-Jewish prejudice, especially of the sort that was common in Europe in the first part of the 20th century. The discredited idea behind the term was that Jews were a different race from Europeans - a sinister, Asian, Semitic race. Hitler classified people as Jews based on their ancestry, not their current religious beliefs.

Now we know that racial classifications are a myth. We also have realized that people identify with their religions as a part of their cultural heritage, and have a difficult time separating criticism of their traditional religious beliefs from ethnic prejudice.

I have read that the Arab world absorbed its anti-Jewish sentiments (which are still referred to as anti-Semitism) from the British and French colonialists who dominated their countries more than from the Qu'ran. But finding those sentiments reflected in the Qu'ran probably makes them harder to get rid of.

Toto · 02-14-2002, 02:00 PM

Update: <a href="http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-000010895feb12.story" target="_blank">New Version Will Replace Pulled Koran</a>

Quote:

A translation of the Koran with several controversial footnotes and commentaries that offended some Jews will be permanently removed from Los Angeles public school libraries and replaced with a less objectionable version, according to an agreement reached Monday.

A panel of Islamic experts and other educators will review potential substitutes for the nearly 300 copies of the 1934 book "The Meaning of the Holy Quran," which were donated last month by a local Islamic foundation to the Los Angeles Unified School District. School officials last week took the books from shelves pending Monday's meeting with Muslim and Jewish leaders.
. . .

The bureaucratic solution: set up a committee.

And how did Hamlet get into the Qu'ran? It appears that the translator is a product of British colonial rule. He probably learned his English from Shakespeare.

Toto · 02-15-2002, 09:18 AM

My favorite curmudgeonly leftist, Alexander Cockburn, comes out and says what needs to be said <a href="http://www.workingforchange.com/article.cfm?ItemId=12817" target="_blank">here</a>:

Quote:

It surely won't be long before the Bible is pulled from school library shelves as well, since the Old Testament is rough on the Palestinians, and the New Testament is rough on the Jews. Try the Book of Numbers, chapter 25, which has sentiments on racial harmony I assume to be different from those of the Los Angeles School District. God is furious about sexual intermingling between the children of Israel and the hosts of Midian. Phineas, son of Eleazar, having risen up with a javelin, "went after the man of Israel into the tent and thrust them both through, the man of Israel and the woman through her belly." God is well pleased and signifies his approval by visiting a pestilence on the Midianites: "So the plague was stayed from the children of Israel. And those that died in the plague were twenty and four thousand."

Also joining the anti-Bible coalition will presumably be the National Organization of Women, unless its officials are swayed by the fact, apparent in the passage just quoted, that Phineas was pro-choice, albeit in a somewhat drastic manner. Here's St. Paul on the status of women: "The head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God."

Though my basic view is that any childish mind not inoculated by compulsory religion is open to any infection, by all means, let us sweep the Jewish Bible, the Christian Bible and the Koran off every bookshelf whither might stray the hand of impressionable youth. Such a cleansing act would return us to the very roots of the European enlightenment.

Does he have a point with that "compulsory religion" innoculation? If Americans associated religion with unpleasant school teachers, would atheism be more of a force here?

02-15-2002, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Toto:
I have read that the Arab world absorbed its anti-Jewish sentiments (which are still referred to as anti-Semitism) from the British and French colonialists who dominated their countries more than from the Qu'ran.

To my mind this sort of thing, which can certainly be found all over the place, is typical of Arab apologetics. It goes along with the myth that the islamic world always treated the dhimmi (xians and jews) decently. In practice, at best they were always second-class citizens, specially taxed and subject to all sorts of restrictions, and at worst they were persecuted.

Islam in practice is not only frequently anti-semitic but also extremely intolerant of many other religions -- particularly those judged to be heretical -- and, of course, of atheists.

Toto · 02-16-2002, 09:59 AM

Another LA Times article in which religious leaders tap dance around the intolerance in many major religious texts:

<a href="http://www.latimes.com/features/religion/la-000011947feb16.story?coll=la%2Dnews%2Dreligion" target="_blank">It Sounds Like Hate, but Is It?</a>

Quote:

New religious movements emerge precisely because the prevailing faiths are deemed flawed in some major way, says Reuven Firestone, a professor of medieval Judaism and Islam at Hebrew Union College in Los Angeles. So if their scriptures rail against others as arrogant sinners, unbelievers, idol worshippers and the like--well, that's their job, Firestone says. "Scripture is a divinely authoritative way to prove the old systems are no longer proper and that there is a need for a new religious expression," he says.

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02-09-2002, 07:13 PM	#2
Euromutt Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The Netherlands (the Kingdom of the Dammed) Posts: 687	Perhaps they should be issued, with the caveat that the footnotes illustrate to some extent why 11-Sep happened. Of course, fairness would require pointing out the spotty track record for tolerance of other monotheistic faiths (and some others) as well...

02-09-2002, 09:08 PM	#3
tdaschel Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 7	...how did Hamlet get into a KooRahn footnote? i guess i shouldn't be too surprised as my Shakespeare prof (here at Bible College, USA!) is Libyan.

02-10-2002, 09:45 AM	#4
gallo Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Houston, TX, US Posts: 244	It is also interesting to note that Islam is the religion of most Arab peoples and that they are, as was Mohamed, semites.

02-10-2002, 10:17 AM	#5
emotional Banned Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Boxing ring of HaShem, Jesus and Allah Posts: 1,945	You don't need commentary to tell that the Qur'an heaps vitriol on the Jews, it's in the plain text quite clearly. Some of it is reiteration of the rants of God against the "stiffnecked people" in the OT, and some are new accusations, such as calling the Jews al-qaum az-zaalimeen in Surat Al-Jum'ah (that one has a lot of insults: the Jews are compared to a donkey carrying books). Muhammad, if historical narration about him is correct, was like Martin Luther in that he thought his reformed revelation would attract the Jews, and was heavily disappointed when they didn't convert to it. If you want to get anti-Jewish sentiments out of Islam, you'll have to get the Qur'an out of Islam.

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