Freethought & Rationalism Archive

chekmate · 06-16-2002, 08:39 AM

Let me start by saying that I'm not sure if this should go here, so movie it if it is necessary. Thanks.

There are many references in the New Testament to the Day of Judgement, when graves shall give up their dead, miraculously made whole again, when all who have ever lived on this earth will appear before the divine tribunal, when good deeds and sins will be weighed in the balance, and Jesus will send the good to heaven and doom the sinners to hell. Does it not follow then that nobody is in heaven or hell yet since, unless I missed it, the Day of Judgement has not yet occurred?

-DM- · 06-16-2002, 10:50 AM

Not that this answers your question, but according to RE 14:1-4, 144,000 virgin men who have not been "defiled" by women will be inhabitants in heaven.

--Don--

[ June 16, 2002: Message edited by: Don Morgan ]

CX · 06-17-2002, 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by chekmate:
Let me start by saying that I'm not sure if this should go here, so movie it if it is necessary. Thanks.

There are many references in the New Testament to the Day of Judgement, when graves shall give up their dead, miraculously made whole again, when all who have ever lived on this earth will appear before the divine tribunal, when good deeds and sins will be weighed in the balance, and Jesus will send the good to heaven and doom the sinners to hell. Does it not follow then that nobody is in heaven or hell yet since, unless I missed it, the Day of Judgement has not yet occurred?

Yes. This is the Catholic and Orthodox understanding. The idea of going to heaven immediately upon death is a modern popular protestant invention. I've never been able to find any biblical support for it. Of course I haven't looked very hard since I don't believe in an afterlife.

The Other Michael · 06-17-2002, 02:18 PM

Hi chekmate,

That literal interpretation would leave all those who like to say "don't be sad, s/he's with Jesus now" in the lurch.

If one of the reasons for religion might be a fear of death, then it seems likely that the immediate translation of the dead believer into nevernever land would be a good tenet for a religion to have.

Of course, having people "really" be dead when they die, prior to a Day of Judgement, raises the question of "where do they go when they die if they aren't with Jesus"?

There seems a big difference to me between the "soul" going into suspended animation prior to the DofJ, versus it ceasing to exist and then being recreated.

cheers,
Michael

AJ the greek · 06-18-2002, 07:26 PM

I like Don's answer, its just the bible, and who can argue with that?

Do that math, 2 years back was Year 6B(Y6B), that is 6 Billion People!!, and only 144,000 undefiled men get to go to heaven? That percentage, which I don't feel like even calculating, has got to be a damn small number. Wow.

Why waste your time, you're probably defiled already anyway.

MortalWombat · 06-22-2002, 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by AJ the greek:

Why waste your time, you're probably defiled already anyway.

Only if you're lucky.

06-16-2002, 08:39 AM	#1
chekmate Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Downriver Detroit Posts: 1,961	Is heaven empty (except for God and his angels)? Let me start by saying that I'm not sure if this should go here, so movie it if it is necessary. Thanks. There are many references in the New Testament to the Day of Judgement, when graves shall give up their dead, miraculously made whole again, when all who have ever lived on this earth will appear before the divine tribunal, when good deeds and sins will be weighed in the balance, and Jesus will send the good to heaven and doom the sinners to hell. Does it not follow then that nobody is in heaven or hell yet since, unless I missed it, the Day of Judgement has not yet occurred?

06-16-2002, 10:50 AM	#2
-DM- Honorary Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: West Coast Posts: 5,714	Not that this answers your question, but according to RE 14:1-4, 144,000 virgin men who have not been "defiled" by women will be inhabitants in heaven. --Don-- [ June 16, 2002: Message edited by: Don Morgan ]</p>

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06-17-2002, 02:18 PM	#4
The Other Michael Honorary Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: In the fog of San Francisco Posts: 12,631	Hi chekmate, That literal interpretation would leave all those who like to say "don't be sad, s/he's with Jesus now" in the lurch. If one of the reasons for religion might be a fear of death, then it seems likely that the immediate translation of the dead believer into nevernever land would be a good tenet for a religion to have. Of course, having people "really" be dead when they die, prior to a Day of Judgement, raises the question of "where do they go when they die if they aren't with Jesus"? There seems a big difference to me between the "soul" going into suspended animation prior to the DofJ, versus it ceasing to exist and then being recreated. cheers, Michael

06-18-2002, 07:26 PM	#5
AJ the greek Regular Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: out there Posts: 140	I like Don's answer, its just the bible, and who can argue with that? Do that math, 2 years back was Year 6B(Y6B), that is 6 Billion People!!, and only 144,000 undefiled men get to go to heaven? That percentage, which I don't feel like even calculating, has got to be a damn small number. Wow. Why waste your time, you're probably defiled already anyway.

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