Freethought & Rationalism Archive

GaryP · 05-06-2002, 01:49 AM

My wife's Presbyterian church recently purchased one. I thought I heard it was around 30,000 but I could be wrong.

If it was that cheap, I'll try to find out how they procured it.

GaryP · 05-06-2002, 02:45 AM

Bill--

Sorry about the misinfo. My better hlf informs me the new organ was 90,000!

05-14-2002, 05:34 PM

<a href="http://www.freedomforum.org/templates/document.asp?documentID=16232" target="_blank">Federal judge: Lord's Prayer can't be sung at Iowa high school graduation</a>

This is excellent news. A family of atheists stood up to the fundies deep in the heart of fundyland and WON!!!

See the fundy reaction to this ruling <a href="http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/683501/posts?page=1#1" target="_blank">here.</a>

Anunnaki · 05-14-2002, 06:30 PM

Wow! Those fundies are pissed and crazy. <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" />

[ May 14, 2002: Message edited by: Anunnaki ]</p>

GaryP · 05-14-2002, 07:05 PM

While what happened in Iowa is encouraging, I can't understand how the judge could make it a temporary ruling just till the 2 kids graduate.

Doesn't the fact that there are taxpayers or indeed any citizen in that district who do not approve of the song mean anything?

This should be against the law no matter if kids have to take the lead or not.

Is the ICLU going to settle for this ruling? I would hope they would continue to pursue it.

All the majority need to do is to organize a service in a church, let the families know where and when it is, and leave the graduation ceremony secular so all can enjoy it.

beekay · 05-14-2002, 07:48 PM

Ouch! The scathing remarks made by folks on that message board scare me! Foaming at the mouth indeed!

The one guy on there who responded with calm reason each and every time earned my sincere respect. I couldn't imagine things turning out very well, though, if these folks met in person ...

MacPrince · 05-15-2002, 07:56 PM

Hmm...I can't seem to load that message board link.

My computer must be detecting the low IQs over at that site and shielding me from it.

yygke · 05-16-2002, 03:45 PM

I think I've missed something --

So these girls are atheists.

If they are truly atheists, that would mean that they do not believe in a God. I've had this argument before, and the general feeling is that atheism is a passive "NON-belief" rather than an active "BELIEF" in there not being a God.

So, if these girls really think that there is no God, why are they so upset? It's not going against any religion that they belong to, and it isn't a prayer in their eyes, it's simply a silly song to no one. If they are really that stubborn and prideful, and they think that they are TOO GOOD to sing a song to some god that they don't even believe exists, then don't sing. Get an "f" or whatever the consequence is. It's choir class. Enough rambling, but that's my opinion.

[abusive and intemperate language deleted] if you ask me.

[ May 16, 2002: Message edited by: Toto ]</p>

GaryP · 05-16-2002, 03:53 PM

Imagine that you are a christian kid in an atheistic community and instead of singing the Lord's prayer, the choir is practicing a song called, "There Ain't No God".

Now of course you know there IS a god so why are you upset about just a silly song?

yygke · 05-16-2002, 03:56 PM

Because according to the beliefs of that religion, it's a sin to deny God, so even though you know there is a God, it would be sinning to deny Him. The reason that it's different for atheists is because it is (supposedly) not a belief system.

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05-06-2002, 01:49 AM	#21
GaryP Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Lancaster, OH Posts: 1,792	My wife's Presbyterian church recently purchased one. I thought I heard it was around 30,000 but I could be wrong. If it was that cheap, I'll try to find out how they procured it.

05-06-2002, 02:45 AM	#22
GaryP Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Lancaster, OH Posts: 1,792	Bill-- Sorry about the misinfo. My better hlf informs me the new organ was 90,000!

05-14-2002, 05:34 PM	#23
atheist_in_foxhole Guest Posts: n/a	<a href="http://www.freedomforum.org/templates/document.asp?documentID=16232" target="_blank">Federal judge: Lord's Prayer can't be sung at Iowa high school graduation</a> This is excellent news. A family of atheists stood up to the fundies deep in the heart of fundyland and WON!!! See the fundy reaction to this ruling <a href="http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/683501/posts?page=1#1" target="_blank">here.</a>

05-14-2002, 06:30 PM	#24
Anunnaki Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: I`ve left and gone away Posts: 699	Wow! Those fundies are pissed and crazy. <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" /> [ May 14, 2002: Message edited by: Anunnaki ]</p>

05-14-2002, 07:05 PM	#25
GaryP Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Lancaster, OH Posts: 1,792	While what happened in Iowa is encouraging, I can't understand how the judge could make it a temporary ruling just till the 2 kids graduate. Doesn't the fact that there are taxpayers or indeed any citizen in that district who do not approve of the song mean anything? This should be against the law no matter if kids have to take the lead or not. Is the ICLU going to settle for this ruling? I would hope they would continue to pursue it. All the majority need to do is to organize a service in a church, let the families know where and when it is, and leave the graduation ceremony secular so all can enjoy it.

05-14-2002, 07:48 PM	#26
beekay Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Western North Carolina Posts: 121	Ouch! The scathing remarks made by folks on that message board scare me! Foaming at the mouth indeed! The one guy on there who responded with calm reason each and every time earned my sincere respect. I couldn't imagine things turning out very well, though, if these folks met in person ...

05-15-2002, 07:56 PM	#27
MacPrince Regular Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: A suburb of Chicago you've probably never heard of Posts: 282	Hmm...I can't seem to load that message board link. My computer must be detecting the low IQs over at that site and shielding me from it.

05-16-2002, 03:45 PM	#28
yygke Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: San Diego Posts: 68	I think I've missed something -- So these girls are atheists. If they are truly atheists, that would mean that they do not believe in a God. I've had this argument before, and the general feeling is that atheism is a passive "NON-belief" rather than an active "BELIEF" in there not being a God. So, if these girls really think that there is no God, why are they so upset? It's not going against any religion that they belong to, and it isn't a prayer in their eyes, it's simply a silly song to no one. If they are really that stubborn and prideful, and they think that they are TOO GOOD to sing a song to some god that they don't even believe exists, then don't sing. Get an "f" or whatever the consequence is. It's choir class. Enough rambling, but that's my opinion. [abusive and intemperate language deleted] if you ask me. [ May 16, 2002: Message edited by: Toto ]</p>

05-16-2002, 03:53 PM	#29
GaryP Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Lancaster, OH Posts: 1,792	Imagine that you are a christian kid in an atheistic community and instead of singing the Lord's prayer, the choir is practicing a song called, "There Ain't No God". Now of course you know there IS a god so why are you upset about just a silly song?

05-16-2002, 03:56 PM	#30
yygke Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: San Diego Posts: 68	Because according to the beliefs of that religion, it's a sin to deny God, so even though you know there is a God, it would be sinning to deny Him. The reason that it's different for atheists is because it is (supposedly) not a belief system.

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