Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Wiploc · 02-25-2003, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JenniferD
Wiploc, that makes sense. I figured that's what you were getting at, but I didn't get the Ruth and Solomon connection. I know Solomon was a wise and great king, but wasn't Ruth some sort of prostitute or adultress or something? Or do I have her mixed up with somebody else? Not that I personally find anything wrong with prostitution, but I think the judeo-christian god considers it sinful. I obviously have the wrong idea about Ruth. Maybe I'm thinking of Esther? Need to review my OT!

I don't know who Ruth is.

I probably got her out of a _Fiddler on the Roof_ song, "May you be like Ruth and like Esther." I assumed she was an example of a good woman. The whole point is that other people than Adam and Eve could have been used, and an omniscient god would have know which to use.

Ensign Steve · 02-25-2003, 12:31 PM

LOL! Thanks for the clarification, wiploc! I got so bogged down in the semantics and I completely missed the message. Now that I see what you're talking about, and re-read the posts, I realize it doesn't matter if you had said Mike and Jill, the point is the same! Oops!

darkfrog · 02-25-2003, 12:44 PM

I would go so far as to state that the reason so many of you have a problem with the Christian God is because you have no clue who He is.

As for Ruth, she was not a prostitute, but rather a Godly woman as depicted in the Bible and an unswervingly devoute wife to Naomi who was quite desolate. If you would like more details than that of Ruth they've actually made it quite easy to find if you just look under the book of the same name.

Solomon was the son of David and received the blessing of God and abudance of wisdom because of his father. Solomon is a great example of even through unmatched in wisdom he was still sinful in nature.

I would be happy to explain in detail any questions you have about how God can be loving and all this other stuff that seems to be common to throw out, but my answers come straight from the Bible and are logical and sufficient if only looked to with discernment.

-darkfrog

WWSD · 02-25-2003, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JubalsCall

What is yours one main reason for not believing in God?

Hello Tibbs,

I am an atheist regarding xtinaity and islam and and agnostic regarding other religions that I have explored.

My reasons for not believing in western theologies are mostly based around the inconsistencied found within the religions, and amongst the believers. This is compounded by the inconsistencies with reality, for example, age of the earth, flatness of the earth, etcetera.

But there are so many more reasons that it would take quite some time to go through them all.

See ya around.

gcameron · 02-25-2003, 01:07 PM

To quote my brother: "You speak to me of Gods, but I see only the words of Men."

That leaves the Argument from Design (also known as the "look at this leaf!!!!!!" argument). Sometimes it puts me in the mood to adopt a provisional deism. But then Infinite Regression (which I have never seen answered to my satisfaction) looms, and also it occurs to me how little we really know about the underlying roots of nature's complexity, and I suspend judgment on the matter.

darkfrog · 02-25-2003, 01:10 PM

WWSD,

You state there are so many reasons you are an atheist. All religions aside why do you disbelieve there IS A GOD?

To be an atheist you must deny that we have a sentient creator, not that you just don't like any of the "gods" man has come up with thus far.

I ask this to any that dare to answer. First, why do you believe there is no God? Second, where did we come from if there is no God?

-darkfrog

Ensign Steve · 02-25-2003, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by darkfrog
As for Ruth, she was not a prostitute, but rather a Godly woman as depicted in the Bible and an unswervingly devoute wife to Naomi who was quite desolate. If you would like more details than that of Ruth they've actually made it quite easy to find if you just look under the book of the same name.

Darkfrog,

Thanks for clearing that up!

Mageth · 02-25-2003, 01:23 PM

I ask this to any that dare to answer. First, why do you believe there is no God?

That's easy; there's no evidence that there is a god. Therefore, I lack belief in any god(s)

Second, where did we come from if there is no God?

Well, I was born, a child of my mother and father, in a small town near Houston. Likewise, my parents had fathers and mothers. And so on...go on back a bit...at some point in the past, I (and you) share a common ancestor with the great apes...and so on...go on back...an ancestral primate, common ancestor with the monkeys...keep going...through a long, possibly 3.5 billion year lineage of ancestors that all managed to successfully replicate...and you reach, at the dawn of life, a first collection of chemicals that self-organized into replicating entities and began the long, evolutionary process.

Mageth · 02-25-2003, 01:27 PM

I would go so far as to state that the reason so many of you have a problem with the Christian God is because you have no clue who He is.

I don't have a "problem" with the Christian god; I merely don't believe he exists. And I know a lot about what or who "He" is supposed to be - I was a theist for 45 years, after all. What he is supposed to be is what humankind has defined him to supposed to be.

Mageth · 02-25-2003, 01:31 PM

I would say the first real statement that must be agreed upon is one of Descarte's famous quotes, "There can be nothing in the effect that isn't first in the cause." Now, I think that is a generally accepted notion, but is there anyone that disagrees with this?

Yes; lots of people disagree with the First Cause argument, including myself. The argument is generally accepted in some circles, perhaps, but is by no means universally accepted. The argments against it are far too compelling. Peruse some or all of the links on this page in the SecWeb library for some examples.

02-25-2003, 12:44 PM	#43
darkfrog Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 7	Ignorance is no excuse. I would go so far as to state that the reason so many of you have a problem with the Christian God is because you have no clue who He is. As for Ruth, she was not a prostitute, but rather a Godly woman as depicted in the Bible and an unswervingly devoute wife to Naomi who was quite desolate. If you would like more details than that of Ruth they've actually made it quite easy to find if you just look under the book of the same name. Solomon was the son of David and received the blessing of God and abudance of wisdom because of his father. Solomon is a great example of even through unmatched in wisdom he was still sinful in nature. I would be happy to explain in detail any questions you have about how God can be loving and all this other stuff that seems to be common to throw out, but my answers come straight from the Bible and are logical and sufficient if only looked to with discernment. -darkfrog

02-25-2003, 01:10 PM	#46
darkfrog Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 7	A Question for Atheists! WWSD, You state there are so many reasons you are an atheist. All religions aside why do you disbelieve there IS A GOD? To be an atheist you must deny that we have a sentient creator, not that you just don't like any of the "gods" man has come up with thus far. I ask this to any that dare to answer. First, why do you believe there is no God? Second, where did we come from if there is no God? -darkfrog

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

02-25-2003, 12:31 PM	#42
Ensign Steve Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Augusta, Georgia, United States Posts: 1,235	LOL! Thanks for the clarification, wiploc! I got so bogged down in the semantics and I completely missed the message. Now that I see what you're talking about, and re-read the posts, I realize it doesn't matter if you had said Mike and Jill, the point is the same! Oops!

02-25-2003, 01:07 PM	#45
gcameron Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Western U.S.A. Posts: 293	To quote my brother: "You speak to me of Gods, but I see only the words of Men." That leaves the Argument from Design (also known as the "look at this leaf!!!!!!" argument). Sometimes it puts me in the mood to adopt a provisional deism. But then Infinite Regression (which I have never seen answered to my satisfaction) looms, and also it occurs to me how little we really know about the underlying roots of nature's complexity, and I suspend judgment on the matter.

02-25-2003, 01:23 PM	#48
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	I ask this to any that dare to answer. First, why do you believe there is no God? That's easy; there's no evidence that there is a god. Therefore, I lack belief in any god(s) Second, where did we come from if there is no God? Well, I was born, a child of my mother and father, in a small town near Houston. Likewise, my parents had fathers and mothers. And so on...go on back a bit...at some point in the past, I (and you) share a common ancestor with the great apes...and so on...go on back...an ancestral primate, common ancestor with the monkeys...keep going...through a long, possibly 3.5 billion year lineage of ancestors that all managed to successfully replicate...and you reach, at the dawn of life, a first collection of chemicals that self-organized into replicating entities and began the long, evolutionary process.

02-25-2003, 01:27 PM	#49
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	I would go so far as to state that the reason so many of you have a problem with the Christian God is because you have no clue who He is. I don't have a "problem" with the Christian god; I merely don't believe he exists. And I know a lot about what or who "He" is supposed to be - I was a theist for 45 years, after all. What he is supposed to be is what humankind has defined him to supposed to be.

02-25-2003, 01:31 PM	#50
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	I would say the first real statement that must be agreed upon is one of Descarte's famous quotes, "There can be nothing in the effect that isn't first in the cause." Now, I think that is a generally accepted notion, but is there anyone that disagrees with this? Yes; lots of people disagree with the First Cause argument, including myself. The argument is generally accepted in some circles, perhaps, but is by no means universally accepted. The argments against it are far too compelling. Peruse some or all of the links on this page in the SecWeb library for some examples.

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.