keyser_soze

I did not mean it as a bragging thing. It was a terrible thing, and it bothered me tremendously that I had not enough will(I am VERY willful) to control myself. No, it aggravated me, and made me despise myself from the moment it occurred, until this moment now. And yes, hormones make it hard, I understand it and sympathize with your plight. IT WAS TOTALLY REGRETTABLE. If you cannot help yourself, then my advice is to hold off and you two TALK NOW! You must get the situation under control. If you cannot control yourself now, what right does she expect that you will ever be able to? And going into it, failed at this early of a stage, what gives you the right to even ask it of her? I do not suggest the stoic nature for you, it works for some, but self deprivation is not always a BAD thing.

HelenM

You still despise yourself for it?

I hope you can forgive yourself. It's good if you can find the balance where you regret deeply that you did it and are deeply committed to never repeating it and yet you accept that you did it and forgive yourself for...being human. Imo.

(Excuse me for posting to someone else on your thread, IM but this just seemed so sad... )

Helen

brighid

If you cannot be trusted to keep your word and honor your commitments, while simultaneously maintaining a double standard (since her yet unproven infidelity caused you so much pain) of practice for both you, IMO you are not ready to marry. If you cannot be trusted in these matters how can she trust you in other matters? This is NO foundation to build a marriage on. Wasn’t one of her fears the social customs of your tribe, but you assured her that you won’t practice those customs? Why she should trust that she won’t be made to follow those customs that she find unacceptable after she marries you if you have one set of standards for her, and another for yourself, all the while being dishonest about what you are actually doing and feeling? Why should she have children and be dependent on you for her well-being and financial support when you cannot be trusted?

It is immoral to promise one thing and do another. It is immoral to say it is perfectly acceptable for you to fulfill your physical and emotional desires, while imposing a different set of rules upon her.

Would it now, because of your newly found sense of moral impunity, be acceptable for her to carry on a sexual affair with a man in her vicinity because you won’t (because of the expense, etc.) come to her to fulfill her needs? Why should she be expected to put herself out in a way you won’t?

You live a community and you have commitments to members of that community. What if you were to suddenly stop helping your brothers, or caring for your mother? What if you lied to them and said, “Yes I will financially support you”, but later you just didn’t feel like it and it hurt them emotionally, financially and otherwise. If you won’t shirk your obligations to your family, why do you feel it acceptable to shirk your responsibilities to your fiancé?

If you cannot be frank with your fiancé, and if you must deceive her in order to keep her then marriage should not be an option. If you continue to deceive her, and she marries you based upon a false idea of who you are you have stolen her through false advertising.

As to your comment about wanting responses from “mature guys” there are plenty of “mature women” capable of giving you good information without ever having gone down the road of infidelity. There opinions shouldn’t be discounted in a fallacious way simply because of their gender, or their lack of adulterous behavior.

Brighid

keyser_soze

Contrary to another poster...DO NOT ISSUE AN ULTIMATUM! The worse thing she can do is comply with your wish, and you will pay for it for the rest of your marriage to her. I have already explained this. I admit I had an affair. But it was definately the WRONG thing to do. And to trust a woman who would have an affair on her husband(yes, I cheated with a married woman), would be insane. Our relationship started out as just sex, but it became more for her, and I paid the consequences TWICE. You will regret your decision to do it.

Look, I'm a guy, and I'm practical above all things. I'm not going to tell you to do this for moral reasons(although they are a very good reason), or a religious reason. I tell you for selfish reasons, to alleviate some of my own guilt and to hopefully prevent you from doing something that will cost you for years, for a fleeting feeling. Go buy yourself a blow job if you have too, do anything but get into a relationship! I would strongly discourage extra marital affairs, but if you absolutely cannot get this off your mind, go out tonight, get a blow job, and come back when you can think straight! You really are not thinking correctly right now, and you are looking for the smallest approval from someone, anyone at this moment. You are waiting for that simple "Hey, what can it hurt" before you do what you already KNOW you shouldn't do. Be safe, get straight, and come back and talk about it some more with us. I know everyone will be pissed about my suggestion, but I know exactly where you are at right now, and it's more from a sense of abandonment by her, the lack of her wanting to make you her sun to orbit, that is getting you. You are simply finding the easiest chink in the armour to stab yourself and her at the same time. And you WILL allow her to find out, because you are trying to hurt her at the same time. You will arrange it subconciously, or conciously, but you will arrange it. Think about what you are about to do, take a deep breath, and step the hell away from it for a while. You have to get your mind clear and think for a bit.

brighid

I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt that this wasn't actually meant as a death threat, but rather as a hypothetical situation to illustrate a point.

Well, there are probabilities as to what would LIKELY happen if you and HelenM were to fight to the death. I will assume as a man that you are larger then her and quite possibly physically stronger then her. I am not sure what sort of combat or handgun training HelenM has, but she seems to be more of a pacifist and not really the type prepared to physically fight a man to the death. Except perhaps if you were to attempt to harm her children and mothers become rather viscious at that point.

In this situation it is more then likely that you would arise the victor and HelenM would lose her life. Although no one can with 100% percent certainty know the outcome of these types of situations we can know with a relative, or even strong degree of certainty what will LIKELY happen. There are laws about what a reasonable person can foreseeable determine to be the outcome of a situation. It is foreseeable that your infidelity will be discovered, it will cause emotional harm to your fiance, and to the family of the women you are diddling with (given that she appears to have strong emotions for you), not to mention her innocent children who will have to deal with the aftermath (given that such scenarios have played themselves out millions of time in human history) ... and so on and so forth. So why take on a task that will more then likely cause a great number of people unneccesary harm because you desire to get your rocks off?

Brighid

keyser_soze

Umm....Wind down a tad there B. I think he meant it as hypothetical point. At this moment, he feels that this is an extreme NEED in him. It is only the mental gymnastics needed to talk himself into breaking off what he already feels needs to be broken off. Instead of sitting down and talking it out however, I think he is merely sabotaging the relationship so that it is easier for him to leave it. Self destructive tendencies and all that.

Daisy

The other woman says she loves you, but you say it's ok to use her for sex. If I understand you, her feelings for you are unworthy of consideration because she would be betraying her husband and, since you've told her upfront that you'd be using her and she has agreed to your conditions, it's moral.

Don't do it.

If you want no-strings sex, don't try to have it with someone who is in love or infatuated with you. Pick someone who cares as little for you as you do for her.

I'm inclined to believe what a person says about herself barring evidence of contradiction.

Just sex. And companionship, perhaps. Just sex and companionship? I think you may be severely underestimating her need and desire. Or do they really count for nothing to you because she's nothing to you? I think there is a tremendous likelihood of hurt and devastation here.

fatherphil

don't marry. find another person whose life is more compatible with your's. there is no right or wrong in either of your fiance's or your own desires. they just don't match up.

don't be a part of this other woman's adultery. that is just wrong inspite of any reason which may be presented to justify it.

brighid

However, HelenM did not seem to be clear on that and was startled by it and therefore as a moderator of this forum I felt it important to address the point that he appeared to be making. I gave him the benefit of the doubt. I agree with you otherwise, except perhaps for the "winding down comment." But I appreciate your thoughts on the matter.

Brighid

keyser_soze

This I can understand. He is in some serious turmoil, we need to support him as much as possible, and GIVE him the benefit of the doubt. He knows what is right, he is looking for a single person to give him a "go ahead". I do not intend him to get it. I know that even highly moral people make mistakes, and it is often the result of inadequate support from his friends. He DOES need to clarify it for her, but it seems readily obvious that his intent was to make a point. The point being that he is struggling with this right now, and it is very telling to me that he likened it to a battle to the death. I believe that he very much intends to do himself harm, at the minimum the relationship, and it often gets MUCH worse from there. A limitless spiral towards the ground if you will. I recognize his position only too well.

And....wind down a bit there B... A question to him or a PM would have worked well.