Ted Hoffman

A little background info.
Last year - she (now my fiancee) got this job. She is at a remote location in Sudan working for World Food Programme. When I asked her to quit it, she mentioned something about "where is the ring" - something vague - I took it as a hint. I decided what the heck - we been together five years I might as well propose...
I did in December - of course she agreed. After a while. We had a huge fight and I told her to quit the job so that we try and get her another. She said she wanted to have experience bla bla bla...
We couldn't even agree on the wedding date, but later we agreed to have it on April next year.
Because of its remoteness, I cant travel to the place and even if I could the flights are damn too expensive. We have fought over this I have told her I have seen families wrecked by this kind of estrangement (AIDs, infidelity etc) - she feels that so long as we are able to call on phone, we should be able to cope.
I do not agree of course and when I told her there is no point in getting married if this is how we will live, she cried etc etc that I am not accepting her as she is etc. I told her to me the purpose of marriage is to be with someone you love and I made it clear that she can go on working there but when she is ready to settle down, we can then tie the knot.
I told her one of my expectations in marriage is companionship. After the tears, she said our marriage should not limit our carrer potentials and that the marriage should allow us to achieve our highest potentials etc etc. I acquiesced somewhat - and agreed on a tentative date of April (I had refused to set a date) - she argued that the fact that we dont agree on this should not stop us from setting a date because she wont work there for long anyway...
Her contract expires in June. They are likely to renew it. I asked her whether she will accept the offer if they renew it and she said she would rather we discuss about it when she comes. I suspect that she will agree because she has argued that she doesnt know how long it will take her to get another job etc etc. Thats my fear.
To some extent, I am rather angry at her and I feel she is putting her job before our relationship. I also feel unable to help much because I am paying fees for my brothers, I am starting my masters in two months time and I am taking care of my mother (financially) - so I cant begrudge her the job because she needs money anyway.

So it means I can only have sex once every three months (been that way for the last 8 months).
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Thats where you moral philosphers come in.
Sexual tension, sexual repression - temptations etc etc.
I have always believed I am not the type that can cheat.
Here I am - sexually starved etc and there is this woman shes around 32 - married 2 kids - who really wants me and I think I now want her too - physically.
Our situations are similar - her husband works somewhere in Atlanta - he comes home once in two or three years. She feels she is losing her best years in life. So pretty much me and her have sour grapes and arent very happy with our relationships.

She says she loves me - I have told her she is not sixteen and she shouldn't act all soapy and expect me to be swayed by that. I once told her that she is married and whether she loves me or not is irrelevant and that its a love that is doomed and that cant be entertained. She was mad and told me she is not a child and has thought about all that - and that no one knows she is married more than herself. I have told her I can only want her physically and she is ready to go.

I dont buy the claim that she is in love with me - I think she, like me, just wants sex. But what if I am wrong - what if she even becomes posessive and decides to wreak my relationship out of jealousy?
Protected sex, I believe, rules out STDs and pregnancy - so no couse of worry there. What i her husband has a PI who can find out about us and he gets a hitman to eliminate me? He could spring a trap and fuck me up.

About affairs - I read somewhere that only the dumb get caught.

About affairs, I read somewhere that they always end up in pain and are never worth it.

Here is an attractive woman, I am not in love with her, I need sex and she does too. No strings attached. She knows just about everything about me and me about her.

Why should I not go for it?

I also think that if I am going to meet my needs in unhealthy ways like having an affair with a married woman, maybe I am in a wrong relationship.

Its also possible that the relationship is okay and that we just arent communicating very well. I think me and my fiancee have different needs. It seems to me that sex to her isnt a big deal - is that possible? Or is she just fronting - acting strong?

I wouldnt want her to cheat on me and my working assumption is that she is not cheating on me - heck - I am sucker for Kants categorical imperatives. So I am not cheating on her because I wouldnt want her to do the same to me - heck I'd be devastated if I found out she is/was.

On a psychological level, I am confident that I can screw this woman without having any guilty conscience. It seems like a painless, simple, ecstatic and brief excercise. No defenseless victims. No blood, no tears - just two adults having consensual sex. And maybe, if I did it I could purge all these thoughts. And of course, learn something - heck I am so curious. Am I strong enough to emerge "unscathed" from that experience - no guilty conscience and all? There is a lot about me I dont know - for example, I never knew I'd "look" at another woman - but see what life has put on my plate - what to do?
I have always believed there is no point in having a moral philosophy if we dont put it to practice. Am I naively clinging to a moral system that is rendered inferior by the circumstances that confront me?

I also feel that perhaps I shouldnt have to bother my fiancee with this (sexual needs) if I can get an avenue for satisfying them - what better avenue than a financially secure, mature woman who cant afford to run after me.
And a relatioship really isn't about sex - so I dont think I am justified to break it up coz I am not getting enough sex. The way I see it, me and my fiancee have a lot going on and I think our relationship is promising.

Maybe I can afford to be distracted by this woman?

I know we have lots of married and mature people here and I would really appreciate your sentiments/advice.

Both philosophical and practical. Share your knowledge and experience.

My close friends (males) who know about it have been divided some tell me to go for it, others have told me I will have to decide. Yes of course she comes to see me at work - I often tell her I am too busy to have coffee with her.

I am getting tired of appearing as if I dont need this.

I am of the belief that our responsibility in a relationship is to express our needs clearly to our spouses and its up to them to see how and whether they can meet them. Getting them to meet our needs might result in being controlling etc.
So far, I am perceived as not being supportive and controlling when I tell her to quit her job. I then appear as inadequate (having all these needs) and difficult - or thats how I see myself.

As it is, I am tired of barking up that tree - maybe I can just munch these free berries and when my fiancee wakes up, I revert back?

What do you think?

excreationist

A problem with the other woman is that she might tell others about what you've done... I mean maybe she'd get angry at you in the future for some reason and want to get revenge...
Maybe your wife loves you quite a lot but she just likes to have a lot of space and she doesn't crave as much sex as you do...
If you tell your wife about your idea then your kids might find out which could be bad...
So how long does she plan on being overseas? A few more decades?

keyser_soze

It's not that the dumb get caught, it's just that some women actually don't try to IGNORE it. Every woman knows, but most try to ignore it or pass it off. In my case the other woman called my wife and apologized. Actually turned out to save our marriage, but I digress. You two are obviously too young and have not done as much out in the world as you want to yet. I don't think that it's a matter of love, as you both most likely love each other, it's just that she has a career that she wants to pursue. If you block that, or guilt her into giving it up for you, then you will pay a far heavier price in the future than you can imagine. Let her have her time, and her career. When she is ready, she will come around, and if not, who knows....maybe you both will have moved on. If she is with you, but unhappy that she has missed out on an opportunity, she will be miserable, and in turn will make you miserable. 10 years down the road you will start hearing "I could have done something with my life", and you will realize that she could have...If you had not tried to cage her. You are making a terrible mistake. Get over your hormones, sit down and talk to her about her future wishes, and yours, and if it comes down to it, postpone the marriage, and have a protracted engagement. She may change her mind in a month, or in a year, but you have to allow HER to change it...not you, and definately not by guilt. Play it cool, you can get by without sex for a few months, hell, you'll get WAY less after you marry her anyway(old joke, what's the one food that will decrease a woman's sex drive by 90%? Wedding cake.) Stop thinking of yourself, and think about her, that's what love is, the deepest wish to make the other person happy. You are being selfish, and you need to stop it now.

Ted Hoffman

Yeah, and she is being selfless in pursuing her carrer - right?

Ted Hoffman

But I get your point Keyser. Thanks. For how long can I stop thinking about myself? And who will think about myself if not me?
How successful can this self-oblivious approach be? I am a hormonal and physical animal - for how long can I ignore myself/my body and yet I live with it everyday?

Ted Hoffman

She is not my wife but my fiancee. Hey, wait a minute - wanting to have sex more than once in three months qualifies as craving much sex?

Ted Hoffman

Wow, wow, hold on. Less sex in marriage - a healthy marriage - no handicaps etc?

I thought one can only make another happy if they themselves are happy first?
I thought love is give and take not just mindless giving? See, hormones are working against that ideal - hormones are making sure I have needs too.

So, your advice is, I get over my hormones? Why? Why cant I go ahead and have a go at it - you did and apparently got away with it. Was it good while it lasted? Was it totally regrettable?

HelenM

IM, from what you've said before it absolutely would not be ok with your fiancee if you had sex with another woman - isn't that right?

Doesn't that mean that the answer is 'don't do it', unless you break up with your fiancee first?

I think of you as a person of integrity. I can't imagine you doing this behind your fiancee's back.

Also, doesn't it bother you that this other woman would be doing this behind her husband's back? You'd be cheating on your fiancee and this woman would be cheating on her husband. Two other relationships would be betrayed. Unless you tell your fiancee. And if she says "I understand - you need sex - go for it!" then that's different. But she wouldn't, would she?

Helen

p.s. I was particularly surprised to read this thread, IM, in view of yours just a few months ago:

Do you think she has been cheating on me?

Back then you evidently cared a lot whether she was cheating on you. And now you'd cheat on her?

nermal

This isn't a response about morality, but pragmatism.
If she plans to continue this career, and it doesn't work for you,
and if your considering (plotting,planning, premeditating) a sexual affair with another woman...
the simple answer is break it off. There's nothing wrong with "we tried, but weren't compatible."
There's something wrong with planning a life with one person while having sexual relations with another.
Marriage is more than two people being in love with each other; it's two people building a life and future together--working toward a common goal, whatever that may be.
If your goals are completely incompatible, the marriage will fail. It's that simple.

Ed

excreationist

I said "Maybe... she just likes to have a lot of space and she doesn't crave as much sex as you do..." (Unless she is cheating on you)

Anyway, you could ask her how much longer she wants to spend large periods of time away from you... she might say 5 years... then you could ask "is there a chance it would be longer? Or would that be the absolute maximum?" It may be 10 years, etc... if that is too long for you maybe it is better to tell her about your desire for an affair... you should tell her before you get married though... If she doesn't mind the affair, perhaps it is neater if you postpone marriage until you can both be faithful. If she does mind you having an affair, and her time away would be too long, you could give her an ultimatum - either she comes back soon or you start seeing other people.