Defiant Heretic

Many people seem to think that the only people who are offended by the inclusion of the words 'under God' in the pledge are atheists.

I propose we write a list of all the groups that these words alienate.

Please include the name of the group and a brief explanation of why they're on the list. I'll start it off...

• Atheists - do not believe in any deity
• Agnostics - do not consider the existance of a deity to be an established fact
• Deists - do not believe in a personal deity (e.g. one that interferes with the world)
• IPUists - believe in a goddess, not a god
• Pagans - believe in many gods, not just one.

You get the idea. Now add any ones you can think of. Suggestions include religions that worship a goddess, religions that worship multiple gods, philosophies that don't include a god, etc.

When the list is done, we can then include it in any letters to the editor or letters to congressmen that we write on the subject so they know it's not just atheists who have a problem with the religionized pledge.

crazyfingers

Native American religions
Shintoists

d'naturalist

According to <a href="http://www.adherents.com" target="_blank">Adherents.com</a>, here's a list of the top-20 "religions" in the US (bold=alienated, italics=uncertain):

Christianity 159,030,000

Nonreligious/Secular 27,539,000 - self-explanatory

Judaism 2,831,000

Islam 1,104,000

Buddhism 1,082,000 - Follow the teachings of Siddhartha Gautama (although some worship him as a god)

Agnostic 991,000 - already mentioned

Atheist 902,000 - already mentioned

Hinduism 766,000 - Believe in many gods/goddesses (although I get the feeling it's evolving into a monotheistic religion)

Unitarian Universalist 629,000 - ???

Wiccan/Pagan/Druid 307,000 - Worship nature, a goddess, or a pantheon of gods & goddesses (depends on who you ask)

Spiritualist 116,000 - ???

Native American Religion 103,000 - Worship a "Great Spirit" which manifests itself in nature (animistic?)

Baha'i 84,000 - ???

New Age 68,000 - kind of non-denominational spiritualists

Sikhism 57,000 - ???

Scientology 55,000 - Worship someone named Mimi (or is that Meme?)

Humanist 49,000 - believe in human self-reliance

Deity (Deist) 49,000 - already mentioned

Taoist 40,000 - follow the teachings of Lao Tzu

Eckankar 26,000 - ???

I'd add to the list:
Confucianists - follow the teachings of K'ung fu-Tzu
Native Hawaiians - Worship Pele, the volcano goddess
Animists - worship nature either as a whole or as localized nature spirits

[ August 17, 2002: Message edited by: d'naturalist ]</p>

Vibr8gKiwi

I've spoken to a few Christians who think it's not right to use the name of God in such a vain way on money. Also I understand some theists don't think the name God should be written or spoken except in special circumstances, so I suspect they don't agree with it either.

One of the last sane

Don't Jehovah's Witnesses take exception to saying "Under God"?

Viti

I think JW's are against taking any sort of oath or swearing...something bout being foresworn or possibly putting another entity above God...haven't gotten a clear answer

Splat

I can second that observation. Maybe instead of crossing "god" off of money, it would be more effective (though slower) to write "blasphemy."

It's sad when atheists have to remind the theists what their bibles say...

mibby529

Hmm...Even NDN Xians - as much as they like to internalize oppression against traditionals and agnostics - have to admit that manifest destiny is based on Xianity.

Actually, anyone who doesn't worship a male, anthropomorphic god is going to be offended. That would be half the world, but I don't know US figures. Here's who I can think of:

Atheists - self-explanatory
Agnostics - have no ideas about the nature of a god
Philosophical antitheists - wouldn't worship YHWH even if he could be real
Buddhists - generally don't worship a god
Shinto - worship MANY gods
Taoists - pantheistic
Deists - god exists, but doesn't give a flip about us now that his/her purpose (creation) is fulfilled
Wiccans - worship two gods
Other neopagans - polytheistic
Hindus - worship many gods, monistic
New Agers - no gods per se, but rather "spiritual allies"
NDN traditionals - varying numbers of gods, none of them resembling YHWH in any way shape or form
Vodun - Yoruba/Xian syncretic, many gods
Scientologists - who knows?

That's far from a complete list, naturally.

@Splat:
Yes, it is sad. Simply put, no Xian has ever read the Bible cover to cover. Further, you only remember 10% of what you read when you read something. So quotes about "false prophets" (Read: Non-Xians in general, scientists in particular.) get memorized, but not the part about greed being a mortal sin.

Defiant Heretic

Here's the list so far: (duplicates/subsets/supersets deleted)

Agnostics
Animists
Atheists
Buddhism
Confucianists
Deists
Druid
Hinduism
IPUists
Native American religions
NDN traditionals
New Age
Pagans
Scientology
Shintoists
Taoist
Vodun
Wiccan

Keep them coming!

[ August 19, 2002: Message edited by: Defiant Heretic ]</p>

Joel

The JW's are opposed to the Pledge in any form because it is swearing allegiance to a secular government. This is against their beliefs - they think they should offer allegiance only to Jehovah, not a worldly government. The only acceptable government to them is a theocracy. So it is isn't the 'Under God' they have a problem with, it is the pledge in general.