Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Corgan Sow · 10-18-2002, 09:48 PM

Seraphim brought up the "usefulness" of atheism, which is skeptical of. Now, you may find that this topic is another wishy-washy cliche, but if you're tired of this argument, you may find some other topics somewhere else to enjoy.

The only thing which is different is, I want to omit Christianity and Islam since our friend here is tired of stereotyping these religions along with Taoism, Buddhism and Hinduism (Buddhism is atheistic, seraphim!).

We all know that Taoism and Buddhism do not have scriptures which discriminates people or commands which obeying God is priority above human lives. But what if we do not want to believe in them?

What are the reasons?:

- Alternative medicines such as Ayurveda, acupunture, Yin and Yang are not scientifically proven. There are proven results, and have more impact than your average "placebo", but you cannot certainly certify whether these physicians are qualified for the job or not. Compared to doctors and physicians of modern medicines, it is much easier to see their credibility than physicians for alternative medicine. Also, physicians of alternative medicine can con guillable people instantly than medical practitioners.

- Beliefs like "Qigong" energy and "Feng Shui" are as superficial as newspaper astrology.

- "Realistic" beliefs like Karma, Yin/Yang sounds really good to be true, but are unproven. Speculations and "proof" of karma are just illusionary close to be empirical, but still yet unproven. Besides, the teory of karma can be manipulated as unnecessary guilt to its believers. They are forced to "atone" their sins by wishy-washy rituals or doing too many charitable works until their self-being are neglected. It is also unrealistic to blame a person's "Misfortune" for some unproven crime from past. "Misfortunes" are part and parcel of life, and non-believers are taught to face them whether they like it or not.

Anyway, Yin and Yang are also no different from scientific way of managing the body. Science also proved that prominisculous sex, booze and drugs can harm one's health.

- Resources and money are foolishly wasted by decorating temples, shrines and idols with gold, jewerelly and such, when millions of starving children needs such cash than to credit it to deity/deities that can take care of themselves.

Common misperceptions of atheism.

-Only religion can produce role models like Mother Teresa and Martin Luther King.

Wrong. There are non-governmental organizations ans secular charities which atheists can contribute to. Pity and compassion is enough to guide a person to help one who is in trouble, not an invinsible unicorn. Such narrow-minded views are laughable if not absurd if it comes from educated person.

- [i] People who abuse religion aren't true believers![/B]

from: <a href="http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/intro.html" target="_blank">http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/intro.html</a>

Quote:

This is rather like the No True Scotsman fallacy.

What makes a real believer? There are so many One True Religions it's hard to tell. Look at Christianity: there are many competing groups, all convinced that they are the only true Christians. Sometimes they even fight and kill each other. How is an atheist supposed to decide who's a real Christian and who isn't, when even the major Christian churches like the Catholic Church and the Church of England can't decide amongst themselves?

In the end, most atheists take a pragmatic view, and decide that anyone who calls himself a Christian, and uses Christian belief or dogma to justify his actions, should be considered a Christian. Maybe some of those Christians are just perverting Christian teaching for their own ends -- but surely if the Bible can be so readily used to support un-Christian acts it can't be much of a moral code? If the Bible is the word of God, why couldn't he have made it less easy to misinterpret? And how do you know that your beliefs aren't a perversion of what your God intended?

If there is no single unambiguous interpretation of the Bible, then why should an atheist take one interpretation over another just on your say-so? Sorry, but if someone claims that he believes in Jesus and that he murdered others because Jesus and the Bible told him to do so, we must call him a Christian.

Oh, plleeeeaaaseeee...just Christianity? People don't kill in Hinduism and Buddhism.

Then, you shouldn't preach about religion when all that matters is WORKS, right? There is no need to please a creator of the universe who can take care of himself, and built all the mumbo-jumbo things just to please him. Excuse me, Hinduism did kill minority Muslims in India.

As for the rest, from the same site again...

<a href="http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/intro.html" target="_blank">http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/intro.html</a>

Quote:

"Well, if atheism's so great, why are there so many theists?"

Unfortunately, the popularity of a belief has little to do with how "correct" it is, or whether it "works"; consider how many people believe in astrology, graphology, and other pseudo-sciences.

Many atheists feel that it is simply a human weakness to want to believe in gods. Certainly in many primitive human societies, religion allows the people to deal with phenomena that they do not adequately understand.

Of course, there's more to religion than that. In the industrialized world, we find people believing in religious explanations of phenomena even when there are perfectly adequate natural explanations. Religion may have started as a means of attempting to explain the world, but nowadays it serves other purposes as well. For instance, for many people religion fulfils a social function, providing a sense of community and belonging.

"But so many cultures have developed religions. Surely that must say something?"

Not really. Most religions are only superficially similar; for example, it's worth remembering that religions such as Buddhism and Taoism lack any sort of concept of God in the Christian sense. In short, there is no consensus amongst religions as to what God actually is. Hence one of the problems you must face if you wish to discuss God with an atheist, is that of defining exactly what you mean by the word.

Also, most religions are quick to denounce competing religions, so it's rather odd to use one religion to try and justify another.

Please read the arguments there before refuting me, Seraphim.

10-18-2002, 10:21 PM

Can't help but to smile.

"The only thing which is different is, I want to omit Christianity and Islam since our friend here is tired of stereotyping these religions along with Taoism, Buddhism and Hinduism (Buddhism is atheistic, seraphim!)."

My reply : I have no problem with Christianity or Christians (or Jews for that matter) since they are proven themselves able to live along side other religionists (Christians are "loud" sometimes, but I have no problem with them), it is the Muslim which I really don't like.

And WHO said Buddhism is an atheistic, Corgan? You go to a Monk and ask him what is a Soul, he will said Sentient beings. You ask him what is a Sentient beings, he will say a primodal force which existed before the Big Bang - came from the source which created the Universe, thus God.

Buddhism do not concern itself with God since it is based on individual person approaching God rather than God showing the way around.

"Alternative medicines such as Ayurveda, acupunture, Yin and Yang are not scientifically proven. "

My reply : Then how come so many scientists rushing into rain forest to find a cure for sickness such as Cancer etc? The problem with your "scientific proof" is that scientist can't accept what is in front of him and rather they want something they can see, weight and show around.

Not to mention that scientists has no use of something no-solid and something which they cannot reproduce in a lab (such as synthesis drug) thus get a prize for it. Need I mention about how pharmacies in US patening product they take from the rain forest and reproducing it in synthesic form, making millions while the "owners" - people of the rain forest don't see a dime out of it?

"Beliefs like "Qigong" energy and "Feng Shui" are as superficial as newspaper astrology."

My reply : MAYBE.

"Realistic" beliefs like Karma, Yin/Yang sounds really good to be true, but are unproven. "

My reply : Not sure how to prove a realistic belief is it is based on reality which you don't wish to see.

"Speculations and "proof" of karma are just illusionary close to be empirical, but still yet unproven. "

My reply :

And YET, no one ever lived a bad life and got away with doing bad things. No warlord or a really bad guy ever get hold of a society without falling down on his own face. Coincidence?

"Besides, the teory of karma can be manipulated as unnecessary guilt to its believers. They are forced to "atone" their sins by wishy-washy rituals or doing too many charitable works until their self-being are neglected."

My reply : I can understand about wishy-washy rituals part, I also see such examples in Hindu society here in Malaysia which had nothing to do with religion at all. But I don't understand about too many charitable work part ... what is wrong with that?

"Anyway, Yin and Yang are also no different from scientific way of managing the body. Science also proved that prominisculous sex, booze and drugs can harm one's health."

My reply <img src="graemlins/boohoo.gif" border="0" alt="[Boo Hoo]" /> Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you said that Yin and Yang is an unproven theory?

"Resources and money are foolishly wasted by decorating temples, shrines and idols with gold, jewerelly and such, when millions of starving children needs such cash than to credit it to deity/deities that can take care of themselves."

My reply : Because of too many idiots thinking that God will take care of them better if they do such things. I have yet seen any scriptures that told the devotee to waste money building anything for God. In Hindusm for example, it is Government's duty to build a temple and even THAT if it's society is well in term of economic, politic stability and social stability.

Corgan Sow · 10-20-2002, 09:58 PM

My reply : I have no problem with Christianity or Christians (or Jews for that matter) since they are proven themselves able to live along side other religionists (Christians are "loud" sometimes, but I have no problem with them), it is the Muslim which I really don't like.

You made a mistake like in your Soul and God topic; do not know differences between FACT and PROPAGANDA. Again, christians are no different that Muslims, and I can really see your hypocrisy when Christians flame Muslims in Cari, and you do not do anything about it.

Timothy Mcveigh, Christians who bomb abortion clinics, Christian racist groups like KKK, Hitler was a Christian, not to mention they oppress religious minorities like Wiccans in U.S. Get your facts right, boy. <img src="graemlins/boohoo.gif" border="0" alt="[Boo Hoo]" /> Christianity and Islam are no different.

And WHO said Buddhism is an atheistic, Corgan? You go to a Monk and ask him what is a Soul, he will said Sentient beings. You ask him what is a Sentient beings, he will say a primodal force which existed before the Big Bang - came from the source which created the Universe, thus God.

<img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" /> <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" /> <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" />

Oh gee, another transcendental argument, eh ^_O :

1. Atheists cannot prove where the universe came from.

2. A design must have a creator.

3. Thus, god exists.

Not to mention you reject the Bible as authority of Christians, much less Buddhist scriptures can only be consulted from monks. I suppose we can refer to judges who takes bribes and forget about using the Law and Constitution when in court.

No thank you, not when they can sneak to nightclubs and practice double standards. Just like a paedophile priest teaching a Bible. <img src="graemlins/boohoo.gif" border="0" alt="[Boo Hoo]" />

My reply : Then how come so many scientists rushing into rain forest to find a cure for sickness such as Cancer etc? The problem with your "scientific proof" is that scientist can't accept what is in front of him and rather they want something they can see, weight and show around.

The problem about pretentious religionists like you is you're too guilable to believe in anything as long there is the tag "religion' and "God" in any prescription.

Not to mention that scientists has no use of something no-solid and something which they cannot reproduce in a lab (such as synthesis drug) thus get a prize for it. Need I mention about how pharmacies in US patening product they take from the rain forest and reproducing it in synthesic form, making millions while the "owners" - people of the rain forest don't see a dime out of it?

The problem of nature exploitation by Man is irrelevant. Again, I see no base in your propaganda.

My reply : MAYBE.

MAYBE god didn't exist. Accept the fact and move on.

My reply : Not sure how to prove a realistic belief is it is based on reality which you don't wish to see.

Then you do not wish to see the truth of Islam. Irrelevant because of your blatant hypocrisy.

My reply : And YET, no one ever lived a bad life and got away with doing bad things. No warlord or a really bad guy ever get hold of a society without falling down on his own face. Coincidence?

Oh, the "Good triumph over evil" notion, eh? This doesn't apply to historical figures because if there is tyranny and oppression, someone will eventually topple it. That is because nowhere near history tyrants dominated the world's rule. Care to mention a tyrant who conquered BOTH europe and Asia? The closest world domination we see is WW II. If Stalin supported Hitler during WWII, we'll see a different world by now! if the Americans didn't drop nukes at Japan, the Japanese would still continue to rule!

BTW, let me ask you about evildoers in history. Where is Jack the ripper? It happened at 19th century and no one knows still till today who was...Jack the ripper.

Oh, did stalin got toppled? Nope....

My reply : I can understand about wishy-washy rituals part, I also see such examples in Hindu society here in Malaysia which had nothing to do with religion at all. But I don't understand about too many charitable work part ... what is wrong with that?

Take examples of Buddhist monks who extort money from poor widows and beggars to "atone" for their misfortune.

My reply Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you said that Yin and Yang is an unproven theory?

Did I? Really? My blunder then...

My reply : Because of too many idiots thinking that God will take care of them better if they do such things. I have yet seen any scriptures that told the devotee to waste money building anything for God. In Hindusm for example, it is Government's duty to build a temple and even THAT if it's society is well in term of economic, politic stability and social stability.

Oh, the Scotsman fallacy again...

Please sprout that rubbish when there is no more starving children and greedy corporate tycoons and currency manipulators like Soros.

10-22-2002, 08:45 PM

Forgot about this thread ... shouldn't disappoint Corgan now, should we?

"You made a mistake like in your Soul and God topic; do not know differences between FACT and PROPAGANDA. Again, christians are no different that Muslims, and I can really see your hypocrisy when Christians flame Muslims in Cari, and you do not do anything about it. "

My reply : Whatever mistake I made in whatever thread, put it there and don't drag an argument around.
What is the main difference between Islam and Christianity :

1. Christians don't yell Jihad before landing a 747 into a building.

2. Christians don't kill innocent people with bombs just because they POed at someone else in some part of the world.

3. Christians still consider Non-Christians as humans but with lack of guidance from their religion. Islam consider non-believers as firewood for hell. Nice religion ya?

4. Bible doesn't teach Christians to hate Jews, you can find half a dozen instruction on how to "deal" with Jews (mostly in sacrastic ways) in Al Quran. And they (Muslims) called this load of crap as a holy book.

5. Muslims waged more wars in 1,400 years than most religions in the world. Matter a fact, Al Quran alone teached them that "Mati Shahid" (die fighting for God) is better than die of old age.

6. There is never been a SINGLE Muslim state/country in 1,400 years since Muhammad that existed that developed peacefully with help of Muslims ALONE.

"Timothy Mcveigh, Christians who bomb abortion clinics, Christian racist groups like KKK, Hitler was a Christian, not to mention they oppress religious minorities like Wiccans in U.S. Get your facts right, boy. Christianity and Islam are no different."

My reply : Timothy McVeigh - a single individual action, no big deal. KKK hates the black - does the Bible tells anyone anywhere to hate the blacks? You decide KKK is christian group or not.
Hitler uses Swastika (cross-like symbol, holy to Buddhist) on his flag, does that made him Buddhist as well?
As for Wiccans, I have not read anything about that, mind showing me a link or something regarding this matter?

"Oh gee, another transcendental argument, eh ^_O :"

My reply : Better than talking without knowing what the hell you are talking about.

"1. Atheists cannot prove where the universe came from.
2. A design must have a creator.
3. Thus, god exists."

My reply : When someone explains how energy that created enough matter and energy to form the Big Bang came from, then I can reconsider your suggestion that Buddha was Atheist.

"Not to mention you reject the Bible as authority of Christians, much less Buddhist scriptures can only be consulted from monks. I suppose we can refer to judges who takes bribes and forget about using the Law and Constitution when in court."

My reply : You don't know the difference between Society's Law and Individual's Law? Common Law is law that governed by the Society - they debate pro and con and create laws which ALL members of the society will accept and follow. Religion is never a society law, it is individual law which a person uses to govern himself to lead a better life. Only religion ever try to make a Individual Law into a Society Law is Islam and see how "well" their society is (That's sarcasm for those who is wondering).

"No thank you, not when they can sneak to nightclubs and practice double standards. Just like a paedophile priest teaching a Bible. "

My reply : At least this fallen "priest" target other, your Imans and holy-cows (people who follow Islam) target their own daughters and grand-daughters. For those outside Asian region, the report that old men (some as old as 70) got dragged into court almost every month with some sort of such allegations and most of the comes from Muslim society. Holy indeed (sarcasm again).

"The problem about pretentious religionists like you is you're too guilable to believe in anything as long there is the tag "religion' and "God" in any prescription."

My reply : And since when does scientists and pharmacy use Religion and God to promote their product? Get the fact straight, Corgan, read and understand before replying.

"The problem of nature exploitation by Man is irrelevant. Again, I see no base in your propaganda."

My reply : Your Head is irrelevant. You want me to post how many products produced from the rain forest?

"MAYBE god didn't exist. Accept the fact and move on."

My reply : Now who is pushing unproven statements into someone else's throat?

"Then you do not wish to see the truth of Islam. Irrelevant because of your blatant hypocrisy."

My reply :

I SEE plenty of your Islam crap every f*%king day here. Islam in my point of view IS NOT religion but a cult that should have wiped out along side that mad man called Muhammad 1,400 years ago.

When I see a 1,000 year old statue in Afghan got blown away, I see Islam.
When I see a plane crash into a building in September last year, I see Islam.
When 180 innocent people get blown away in Indonesia and the a$$hole who is responsible for it smiles, I see Islam.

I see ENOUGH of Islam's sh#t in the world and don't you treat me like a blind man.

"Oh, the "Good triumph over evil" notion, eh? This doesn't apply to historical figures because if there is tyranny and oppression, someone will eventually topple it. That is because nowhere near history tyrants dominated the world's rule. Care to mention a tyrant who conquered BOTH europe and Asia? The closest world domination we see is WW II. If Stalin supported Hitler during WWII, we'll see a different world by now! if the Americans didn't drop nukes at Japan, the Japanese would still continue to rule!"

My reply : Which one you prefering? Alexander the Not-So-Great? (forgot details about his death or I could make so sarcastic remark on it), or Genghis Khan - till now, no one knows where the hell he is buried - a great emperor who died like a dog.

Stalin DIDN'T support Hitler - I don't think Stalin was THAT mad and Hitler always were a loser.
And America DID nuke Japs from here to hell and back, so stop this IF nonsense and get along with the history.

"BTW, let me ask you about evildoers in history. Where is Jack the ripper? It happened at 19th century and no one knows still till today who was...Jack the ripper. "

My reply : He started his handywork and stop just as mysteriously. There were several people who is suspected to be Jack (not sure the names). There was a doctor from a high-class family who commited suicide by jumping into Thomas River, there was another man who hanged for a petty crime but before he died, he said something like "I'm Jac ..." and he got jacked.
To make long story short bub, the case is unsolved - Yes, but I have a feeling he got what he deserved. Take it or leave it.

"Oh, did stalin got toppled? Nope.... "

My reply : I have no idea why you have Stalin so much. What did he do to you anyway. Mind giving some of his history so I could comment on him?

"Take examples of Buddhist monks who extort money from poor widows and beggars to "atone" for their misfortune."

My reply : And where did you get this load of crap?

"Did I? Really? My blunder then... "

My reply : one of many I have to face nowadays. He screws up and I have to remind him about it.

"Oh, the Scotsman fallacy again...

Please sprout that rubbish when there is no more starving children and greedy corporate tycoons and currency manipulators like Soros. "

My reply : And WHO made them (greedy typhoons and bastards (pardon my french) like Soros) such? Buddhist monks who lived in moderate lives? NOPE, you and those who want to have big, expensive and show-off things. You want big cars, jewelleries, branded clothes etc till this greedy people suck your money. Why blame it on their greedness when you are the cause of it?

Corgan Sow · 10-23-2002, 05:57 AM

Blah, blah, blah...(honestly, do I have to go such lame arguments again?)

My reply : Whatever mistake I made in whatever thread, put it there and don't drag an argument around.

Well, why don't I see you start...

What is the main difference between Islam and Christianity :

[deleted by moderator]You didn't want me to flame Christians, now you don't mind doing that with muslims?

And please, prepare your BIBLE on the table, right now. Or try <a href="http://www.blueletterbible.com" target="_blank">www.blueletterbible.com</a> to make your life easier.

1. Christians don't yell Jihad before landing a 747 into a building.

- Christians did incite racial riots in Indonesia.

- Christians persecute those "infidels" and "heretics" starting in Middle Ages because they do not believe in the Bible and deserved to go to hell, according to them.

- Who started the inquisition?

- Who started the Salem massacre? (read The Crucible)

2. Christians don't kill innocent people with bombs just because they POed at someone else in some part of the world.

- Read Catholic vs Protestants in Ireland.

- Read assholes who bomb abortion clinics.

- Hell, "Christians" did put Auguste Pinochet after toppling a democratic Chilean leader and look what he did. "Christians" started the Vietnam War. "Christians" did sponsor Osama Bin Laden to topple Soviet rule in Afghanistan. Need I mention who that "Christians" are?

3. Christians still consider Non-Christians as humans but with lack of guidance from their religion. Islam consider non-believers as firewood for hell. Nice religion ya?

Did you mistake me as a Muslims? Hilarious...

Correction - Religion didn't misintrepret nor bring any destruction, it is the people (humans) who are doing the misintrepretation and brought destruction. Don't blame Religion or God for all the war you are getting, blame yourselves.

I wonder why...now Islam is an exception?

4. Bible doesn't teach Christians to hate Jews, you can find half a dozen instruction on how to "deal" with Jews (mostly in sacrastic ways) in Al Quran. And they (Muslims) called this load of crap as a holy book.

Post proof. I have the Bible [deleted by moderator]. Prepare.

Priority of God before Mankind's well being (or Jihad):

Luke 12:51-2 "Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three."

Luke 14:26 "If any man come unto me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple."

Luke 19:27 "But those mine enemies which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me."

Matthew 10:34 "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I come not to send peace, but a sword."

Matthew 10:35-6 "For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household."

John 15:6 - "If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned."

Death for practicing other religion:

Exodus 22:18 - Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.

Numbers 25:1-9 - And Israel abode in Shittim, and the people began to commit whoredom with the daughters of Moab. And they called the people unto the sacrifices of their gods: and the people did eat, and bowed down to their gods...And the LORD said unto Moses, Take all the heads of the people, and hang them up before the LORD against the sun...And, behold, one of the children of Israel came and brought unto his brethren a Midianitish woman in the sight of Moses, and in the sight of all the congregation...And when Phinehas...saw it, he rose up...and took a javelin in his hand...and thrust both of them through...So the plague was stayed from the children of Israel. And those that died in the plague were twenty and four thousand.

Oppression and discrimination against woman:

Isaiah 3:16-17 - Moreover the Lord saith, Because the daughters of Zion are haughty, and walk with stretched forth necks and wanton eyes, walking and mincing as they go, and making a tinkling with their feet: Therefore the Lord will smite with a scab the crown of the head of the daughters of Zion, and the Lord will discover their secret parts.

I Corinthians 14:34-35 - Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

Timothy 2:11-15 - Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Condones killing of babies:

Psalm 137:8-9 - O daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed; happy shall he be, that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us. Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.

5. Muslims waged more wars in 1,400 years than most religions in the world. Matter a fact, Al Quran alone teached them that "Mati Shahid" (die fighting for God) is better than die of old age.

Did I need to mention the Catholic Church started oppressing "cults" not of their own since Constantine declared Christianity as official religion?

6. There is never been a SINGLE Muslim state/country in 1,400 years since Muhammad that existed that developed peacefully with help of Muslims ALONE.

Back it up, your rant is useless here.

My reply : Timothy McVeigh - a single individual action, no big deal.

Palestinians who bomb Isreal because they have no other option while Isreal have massive back-up by U.S.A - no big deal.

KKK hates the black - does the Bible tells anyone anywhere to hate the blacks? You decide KKK is christian group or not.

Muslims who kill because they're ignorant of the Quran - you decide.

Hitler uses Swastika (cross-like symbol, holy to Buddhist) on his flag, does that made him Buddhist as well?

What kind of a joke reply is this? Irrelevant.

As for Wiccans, I have not read anything about that, mind showing me a link or something regarding this matter?

<a href="http://www.religioustolerance.org/wic_conf.htm" target="_blank">http://www.religioustolerance.org/wic_conf.htm</a>

<a href="http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2000/11/2/124046/533" target="_blank">http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2000/11/2/124046/533</a>

My reply : When someone explains how energy that created enough matter and energy to form the Big Bang came from, then I can reconsider your suggestion that Buddha was Atheist.

Go ask the atheists here what is "Begging the question", then we talk.

My reply : You don't know the difference between Society's Law and Individual's Law? Common Law is law that governed by the Society - they debate pro and con and create laws which ALL members of the society will accept and follow. Religion is never a society law, it is individual law which a person uses to govern himself to lead a better life. Only religion ever try to make a Individual Law into a Society Law is Islam and see how "well" their society is (That's sarcasm for those who is wondering).

Irrelevant. You need a law for obedience, no law means no obedience. Go read again what i said, thank you.

My reply : At least this fallen "priest" target other, your Imans and holy-cows (people who follow Islam) target their own daughters and grand-daughters. For those outside Asian region, the report that old men (some as old as 70) got dragged into court almost every month with some sort of such allegations and most of the comes from Muslim society. Holy indeed (sarcasm again).

Ran out of options and now declaring paedophile is better than incest. I bet your future kids will be proud of you.

My reply : And since when does scientists and pharmacy use Religion and God to promote their product? Get the fact straight, Corgan, read and understand before replying.

Irrelevant to this topic. I post what regarding this topic is about. You youself, yes; you, get your facts straight, not me.

My reply : Now who is pushing unproven statements into someone else's throat?

Begging The Question. Ask.

My reply : I SEE plenty of your Islam crap every f*%king day here. Islam in my point of view IS NOT religion but a cult that should have wiped out along side that mad man called Muhammad 1,400 years ago.

Christianity is no different. Cult that should have been wiped out years ago and we will be far better.

When I see a 1,000 year old statue in Afghan got blown away, I see Islam.

When I see Jerry Falwell saying Muhammad is terrorist, I see CHRISTIANITY.

When I see a plane crash into a building in September last year, I see Islam.

When I see
televngelists storing millions of dollars in paycheck, I see CHRISTIANITY.

When 180 innocent people get blown away in Indonesia and the a$$hole who is responsible for it smiles, I see Islam.

KAH!KAH!KAH!KAH!KAH!KAH!KAH!KAH!

yOU'VE JUST GAVE ME the best laugh of my life!

hello, we don't know who blew the innocent people in Bali. All the links to JI and Al-Qaeda are S.P.E.C.U.L.A.T.I.O.N. Thank you!

I see ENOUGH of Islam's sh#t in the world and don't you treat me like a blind man.

Unfortunately, I do not see any proof regarding...

My reply : Which one you prefering? Alexander the Not-So-Great? (forgot details about his death or I could make so sarcastic remark on it), or Genghis Khan - till now, no one knows where the hell he is buried - a great emperor who died like a dog.

Read my points again. Please realise that I'm handling you like a kid's glove.

Stalin DIDN'T support Hitler - I don't think Stalin was THAT mad and Hitler always were a loser.
And America DID nuke Japs from here to hell and back, so stop this IF nonsense and get along with the history.

You are dumb enough not to understand my statement properly. I was merely SPECULATING what if Stalin indeed support Hitler and what if American didn't bomb Japan.

To make long story short bub, the case is unsolved - Yes, but I have a feeling he got what he deserved. Take it or leave it.

You ran out of ideas, take it or leave it.

My reply : I have no idea why you have Stalin so much. What did he do to you anyway. Mind giving some of his history so I could comment on him?

I already stated my point. Stalin lived through his fucking regime and died peacefully without assasination or toppled by zealots. Where's God? Probably fucking another human virgin to send another Jesus on earth. Next.

My reply : And where did you get this load of crap?

You ignored my links about corrupt monks in Cari. Like it or not, you're the one running away.

My reply : one of many I have to face nowadays. He screws up and I have to remind him about it.

Do you notice my gloves are tearing apart now? Hhhhhmmmm?

My reply : And WHO made them (greedy typhoons and bastards (pardon my french) like Soros) such? Buddhist monks who lived in moderate lives? NOPE, you and those who want to have big, expensive and show-off things. You want big cars, jewelleries, branded clothes etc till this greedy people suck your money. Why blame it on their greedness when you are the cause of it?

What an amazing amout of crap. Don't sprout me that shit when the Vatican is still a multi-billion dollar industry.

[deleted by moderator - Corgan Sow, I am warning you: please cool it down]

[ October 23, 2002: Message edited by: 99Percent ]</p>

Uzi9mm · 11-13-2002, 09:35 PM

Religion can be used as an excuse for violence...

Vesica · 11-14-2002, 11:31 AM

Uh huh so can clothing style, political affiliation, living situation and just about anything else under the sun....However religion is a historically popular choice.

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10-18-2002, 10:21 PM	#2
Seraphim Guest Posts: n/a	Can't help but to smile. "The only thing which is different is, I want to omit Christianity and Islam since our friend here is tired of stereotyping these religions along with Taoism, Buddhism and Hinduism (Buddhism is atheistic, seraphim!)." My reply : I have no problem with Christianity or Christians (or Jews for that matter) since they are proven themselves able to live along side other religionists (Christians are "loud" sometimes, but I have no problem with them), it is the Muslim which I really don't like. And WHO said Buddhism is an atheistic, Corgan? You go to a Monk and ask him what is a Soul, he will said Sentient beings. You ask him what is a Sentient beings, he will say a primodal force which existed before the Big Bang - came from the source which created the Universe, thus God. Buddhism do not concern itself with God since it is based on individual person approaching God rather than God showing the way around. "Alternative medicines such as Ayurveda, acupunture, Yin and Yang are not scientifically proven. " My reply : Then how come so many scientists rushing into rain forest to find a cure for sickness such as Cancer etc? The problem with your "scientific proof" is that scientist can't accept what is in front of him and rather they want something they can see, weight and show around. Not to mention that scientists has no use of something no-solid and something which they cannot reproduce in a lab (such as synthesis drug) thus get a prize for it. Need I mention about how pharmacies in US patening product they take from the rain forest and reproducing it in synthesic form, making millions while the "owners" - people of the rain forest don't see a dime out of it? "Beliefs like "Qigong" energy and "Feng Shui" are as superficial as newspaper astrology." My reply : MAYBE. "Realistic" beliefs like Karma, Yin/Yang sounds really good to be true, but are unproven. " My reply : Not sure how to prove a realistic belief is it is based on reality which you don't wish to see. "Speculations and "proof" of karma are just illusionary close to be empirical, but still yet unproven. " My reply : And YET, no one ever lived a bad life and got away with doing bad things. No warlord or a really bad guy ever get hold of a society without falling down on his own face. Coincidence? "Besides, the teory of karma can be manipulated as unnecessary guilt to its believers. They are forced to "atone" their sins by wishy-washy rituals or doing too many charitable works until their self-being are neglected." My reply : I can understand about wishy-washy rituals part, I also see such examples in Hindu society here in Malaysia which had nothing to do with religion at all. But I don't understand about too many charitable work part ... what is wrong with that? "Anyway, Yin and Yang are also no different from scientific way of managing the body. Science also proved that prominisculous sex, booze and drugs can harm one's health." My reply <img src="graemlins/boohoo.gif" border="0" alt="[Boo Hoo]" /> Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you said that Yin and Yang is an unproven theory? "Resources and money are foolishly wasted by decorating temples, shrines and idols with gold, jewerelly and such, when millions of starving children needs such cash than to credit it to deity/deities that can take care of themselves." My reply : Because of too many idiots thinking that God will take care of them better if they do such things. I have yet seen any scriptures that told the devotee to waste money building anything for God. In Hindusm for example, it is Government's duty to build a temple and even THAT if it's society is well in term of economic, politic stability and social stability.

10-20-2002, 09:58 PM	#3
Corgan Sow Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia Posts: 1,537	My reply : I have no problem with Christianity or Christians (or Jews for that matter) since they are proven themselves able to live along side other religionists (Christians are "loud" sometimes, but I have no problem with them), it is the Muslim which I really don't like. You made a mistake like in your Soul and God topic; do not know differences between FACT and PROPAGANDA. Again, christians are no different that Muslims, and I can really see your hypocrisy when Christians flame Muslims in Cari, and you do not do anything about it. Timothy Mcveigh, Christians who bomb abortion clinics, Christian racist groups like KKK, Hitler was a Christian, not to mention they oppress religious minorities like Wiccans in U.S. Get your facts right, boy. <img src="graemlins/boohoo.gif" border="0" alt="[Boo Hoo]" /> Christianity and Islam are no different. And WHO said Buddhism is an atheistic, Corgan? You go to a Monk and ask him what is a Soul, he will said Sentient beings. You ask him what is a Sentient beings, he will say a primodal force which existed before the Big Bang - came from the source which created the Universe, thus God. <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" /> <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" /> <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" /> Oh gee, another transcendental argument, eh ^_O : 1. Atheists cannot prove where the universe came from. 2. A design must have a creator. 3. Thus, god exists. Not to mention you reject the Bible as authority of Christians, much less Buddhist scriptures can only be consulted from monks. I suppose we can refer to judges who takes bribes and forget about using the Law and Constitution when in court. No thank you, not when they can sneak to nightclubs and practice double standards. Just like a paedophile priest teaching a Bible. <img src="graemlins/boohoo.gif" border="0" alt="[Boo Hoo]" /> My reply : Then how come so many scientists rushing into rain forest to find a cure for sickness such as Cancer etc? The problem with your "scientific proof" is that scientist can't accept what is in front of him and rather they want something they can see, weight and show around. The problem about pretentious religionists like you is you're too guilable to believe in anything as long there is the tag "religion' and "God" in any prescription. Not to mention that scientists has no use of something no-solid and something which they cannot reproduce in a lab (such as synthesis drug) thus get a prize for it. Need I mention about how pharmacies in US patening product they take from the rain forest and reproducing it in synthesic form, making millions while the "owners" - people of the rain forest don't see a dime out of it? The problem of nature exploitation by Man is irrelevant. Again, I see no base in your propaganda. My reply : MAYBE. MAYBE god didn't exist. Accept the fact and move on. My reply : Not sure how to prove a realistic belief is it is based on reality which you don't wish to see. Then you do not wish to see the truth of Islam. Irrelevant because of your blatant hypocrisy. My reply : And YET, no one ever lived a bad life and got away with doing bad things. No warlord or a really bad guy ever get hold of a society without falling down on his own face. Coincidence? Oh, the "Good triumph over evil" notion, eh? This doesn't apply to historical figures because if there is tyranny and oppression, someone will eventually topple it. That is because nowhere near history tyrants dominated the world's rule. Care to mention a tyrant who conquered BOTH europe and Asia? The closest world domination we see is WW II. If Stalin supported Hitler during WWII, we'll see a different world by now! if the Americans didn't drop nukes at Japan, the Japanese would still continue to rule! BTW, let me ask you about evildoers in history. Where is Jack the ripper? It happened at 19th century and no one knows still till today who was...Jack the ripper. Oh, did stalin got toppled? Nope.... My reply : I can understand about wishy-washy rituals part, I also see such examples in Hindu society here in Malaysia which had nothing to do with religion at all. But I don't understand about too many charitable work part ... what is wrong with that? Take examples of Buddhist monks who extort money from poor widows and beggars to "atone" for their misfortune. My reply Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you said that Yin and Yang is an unproven theory? Did I? Really? My blunder then... My reply : Because of too many idiots thinking that God will take care of them better if they do such things. I have yet seen any scriptures that told the devotee to waste money building anything for God. In Hindusm for example, it is Government's duty to build a temple and even THAT if it's society is well in term of economic, politic stability and social stability. Oh, the Scotsman fallacy again... Please sprout that rubbish when there is no more starving children and greedy corporate tycoons and currency manipulators like Soros.

10-22-2002, 08:45 PM	#4
Seraphim Guest Posts: n/a	Forgot about this thread ... shouldn't disappoint Corgan now, should we? "You made a mistake like in your Soul and God topic; do not know differences between FACT and PROPAGANDA. Again, christians are no different that Muslims, and I can really see your hypocrisy when Christians flame Muslims in Cari, and you do not do anything about it. " My reply : Whatever mistake I made in whatever thread, put it there and don't drag an argument around. What is the main difference between Islam and Christianity : 1. Christians don't yell Jihad before landing a 747 into a building. 2. Christians don't kill innocent people with bombs just because they POed at someone else in some part of the world. 3. Christians still consider Non-Christians as humans but with lack of guidance from their religion. Islam consider non-believers as firewood for hell. Nice religion ya? 4. Bible doesn't teach Christians to hate Jews, you can find half a dozen instruction on how to "deal" with Jews (mostly in sacrastic ways) in Al Quran. And they (Muslims) called this load of crap as a holy book. 5. Muslims waged more wars in 1,400 years than most religions in the world. Matter a fact, Al Quran alone teached them that "Mati Shahid" (die fighting for God) is better than die of old age. 6. There is never been a SINGLE Muslim state/country in 1,400 years since Muhammad that existed that developed peacefully with help of Muslims ALONE. "Timothy Mcveigh, Christians who bomb abortion clinics, Christian racist groups like KKK, Hitler was a Christian, not to mention they oppress religious minorities like Wiccans in U.S. Get your facts right, boy. Christianity and Islam are no different." My reply : Timothy McVeigh - a single individual action, no big deal. KKK hates the black - does the Bible tells anyone anywhere to hate the blacks? You decide KKK is christian group or not. Hitler uses Swastika (cross-like symbol, holy to Buddhist) on his flag, does that made him Buddhist as well? As for Wiccans, I have not read anything about that, mind showing me a link or something regarding this matter? "Oh gee, another transcendental argument, eh ^_O :" My reply : Better than talking without knowing what the hell you are talking about. "1. Atheists cannot prove where the universe came from. 2. A design must have a creator. 3. Thus, god exists." My reply : When someone explains how energy that created enough matter and energy to form the Big Bang came from, then I can reconsider your suggestion that Buddha was Atheist. "Not to mention you reject the Bible as authority of Christians, much less Buddhist scriptures can only be consulted from monks. I suppose we can refer to judges who takes bribes and forget about using the Law and Constitution when in court." My reply : You don't know the difference between Society's Law and Individual's Law? Common Law is law that governed by the Society - they debate pro and con and create laws which ALL members of the society will accept and follow. Religion is never a society law, it is individual law which a person uses to govern himself to lead a better life. Only religion ever try to make a Individual Law into a Society Law is Islam and see how "well" their society is (That's sarcasm for those who is wondering). "No thank you, not when they can sneak to nightclubs and practice double standards. Just like a paedophile priest teaching a Bible. " My reply : At least this fallen "priest" target other, your Imans and holy-cows (people who follow Islam) target their own daughters and grand-daughters. For those outside Asian region, the report that old men (some as old as 70) got dragged into court almost every month with some sort of such allegations and most of the comes from Muslim society. Holy indeed (sarcasm again). "The problem about pretentious religionists like you is you're too guilable to believe in anything as long there is the tag "religion' and "God" in any prescription." My reply : And since when does scientists and pharmacy use Religion and God to promote their product? Get the fact straight, Corgan, read and understand before replying. "The problem of nature exploitation by Man is irrelevant. Again, I see no base in your propaganda." My reply : Your Head is irrelevant. You want me to post how many products produced from the rain forest? "MAYBE god didn't exist. Accept the fact and move on." My reply : Now who is pushing unproven statements into someone else's throat? "Then you do not wish to see the truth of Islam. Irrelevant because of your blatant hypocrisy." My reply : I SEE plenty of your Islam crap every f*%king day here. Islam in my point of view IS NOT religion but a cult that should have wiped out along side that mad man called Muhammad 1,400 years ago. When I see a 1,000 year old statue in Afghan got blown away, I see Islam. When I see a plane crash into a building in September last year, I see Islam. When 180 innocent people get blown away in Indonesia and the a$$hole who is responsible for it smiles, I see Islam. I see ENOUGH of Islam's sh#t in the world and don't you treat me like a blind man. "Oh, the "Good triumph over evil" notion, eh? This doesn't apply to historical figures because if there is tyranny and oppression, someone will eventually topple it. That is because nowhere near history tyrants dominated the world's rule. Care to mention a tyrant who conquered BOTH europe and Asia? The closest world domination we see is WW II. If Stalin supported Hitler during WWII, we'll see a different world by now! if the Americans didn't drop nukes at Japan, the Japanese would still continue to rule!" My reply : Which one you prefering? Alexander the Not-So-Great? (forgot details about his death or I could make so sarcastic remark on it), or Genghis Khan - till now, no one knows where the hell he is buried - a great emperor who died like a dog. Stalin DIDN'T support Hitler - I don't think Stalin was THAT mad and Hitler always were a loser. And America DID nuke Japs from here to hell and back, so stop this IF nonsense and get along with the history. "BTW, let me ask you about evildoers in history. Where is Jack the ripper? It happened at 19th century and no one knows still till today who was...Jack the ripper. " My reply : He started his handywork and stop just as mysteriously. There were several people who is suspected to be Jack (not sure the names). There was a doctor from a high-class family who commited suicide by jumping into Thomas River, there was another man who hanged for a petty crime but before he died, he said something like "I'm Jac ..." and he got jacked. To make long story short bub, the case is unsolved - Yes, but I have a feeling he got what he deserved. Take it or leave it. "Oh, did stalin got toppled? Nope.... " My reply : I have no idea why you have Stalin so much. What did he do to you anyway. Mind giving some of his history so I could comment on him? "Take examples of Buddhist monks who extort money from poor widows and beggars to "atone" for their misfortune." My reply : And where did you get this load of crap? "Did I? Really? My blunder then... " My reply : one of many I have to face nowadays. He screws up and I have to remind him about it. "Oh, the Scotsman fallacy again... Please sprout that rubbish when there is no more starving children and greedy corporate tycoons and currency manipulators like Soros. " My reply : And WHO made them (greedy typhoons and bastards (pardon my french) like Soros) such? Buddhist monks who lived in moderate lives? NOPE, you and those who want to have big, expensive and show-off things. You want big cars, jewelleries, branded clothes etc till this greedy people suck your money. Why blame it on their greedness when you are the cause of it?

10-23-2002, 05:57 AM	#5
Corgan Sow Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia Posts: 1,537	Blah, blah, blah...(honestly, do I have to go such lame arguments again?) My reply : Whatever mistake I made in whatever thread, put it there and don't drag an argument around. Well, why don't I see you start... What is the main difference between Islam and Christianity : [deleted by moderator]You didn't want me to flame Christians, now you don't mind doing that with muslims? And please, prepare your BIBLE on the table, right now. Or try <a href="http://www.blueletterbible.com" target="_blank">www.blueletterbible.com</a> to make your life easier. 1. Christians don't yell Jihad before landing a 747 into a building. - Christians did incite racial riots in Indonesia. - Christians persecute those "infidels" and "heretics" starting in Middle Ages because they do not believe in the Bible and deserved to go to hell, according to them. - Who started the inquisition? - Who started the Salem massacre? (read The Crucible) 2. Christians don't kill innocent people with bombs just because they POed at someone else in some part of the world. - Read Catholic vs Protestants in Ireland. - Read assholes who bomb abortion clinics. - Hell, "Christians" did put Auguste Pinochet after toppling a democratic Chilean leader and look what he did. "Christians" started the Vietnam War. "Christians" did sponsor Osama Bin Laden to topple Soviet rule in Afghanistan. Need I mention who that "Christians" are? 3. Christians still consider Non-Christians as humans but with lack of guidance from their religion. Islam consider non-believers as firewood for hell. Nice religion ya? Did you mistake me as a Muslims? Hilarious... Correction - Religion didn't misintrepret nor bring any destruction, it is the people (humans) who are doing the misintrepretation and brought destruction. Don't blame Religion or God for all the war you are getting, blame yourselves. I wonder why...now Islam is an exception? 4. Bible doesn't teach Christians to hate Jews, you can find half a dozen instruction on how to "deal" with Jews (mostly in sacrastic ways) in Al Quran. And they (Muslims) called this load of crap as a holy book. Post proof. I have the Bible [deleted by moderator]. Prepare. Priority of God before Mankind's well being (or Jihad): Luke 12:51-2 "Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three." Luke 14:26 "If any man come unto me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple." Luke 19:27 "But those mine enemies which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me." Matthew 10:34 "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I come not to send peace, but a sword." Matthew 10:35-6 "For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household." John 15:6 - "If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned." Death for practicing other religion: Exodus 22:18 - Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live. Numbers 25:1-9 - And Israel abode in Shittim, and the people began to commit whoredom with the daughters of Moab. And they called the people unto the sacrifices of their gods: and the people did eat, and bowed down to their gods...And the LORD said unto Moses, Take all the heads of the people, and hang them up before the LORD against the sun...And, behold, one of the children of Israel came and brought unto his brethren a Midianitish woman in the sight of Moses, and in the sight of all the congregation...And when Phinehas...saw it, he rose up...and took a javelin in his hand...and thrust both of them through...So the plague was stayed from the children of Israel. And those that died in the plague were twenty and four thousand. Oppression and discrimination against woman: Isaiah 3:16-17 - Moreover the Lord saith, Because the daughters of Zion are haughty, and walk with stretched forth necks and wanton eyes, walking and mincing as they go, and making a tinkling with their feet: Therefore the Lord will smite with a scab the crown of the head of the daughters of Zion, and the Lord will discover their secret parts. I Corinthians 14:34-35 - Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. Timothy 2:11-15 - Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. Condones killing of babies: Psalm 137:8-9 - O daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed; happy shall he be, that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us. Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones. 5. Muslims waged more wars in 1,400 years than most religions in the world. Matter a fact, Al Quran alone teached them that "Mati Shahid" (die fighting for God) is better than die of old age. Did I need to mention the Catholic Church started oppressing "cults" not of their own since Constantine declared Christianity as official religion? 6. There is never been a SINGLE Muslim state/country in 1,400 years since Muhammad that existed that developed peacefully with help of Muslims ALONE. Back it up, your rant is useless here. My reply : Timothy McVeigh - a single individual action, no big deal. Palestinians who bomb Isreal because they have no other option while Isreal have massive back-up by U.S.A - no big deal. KKK hates the black - does the Bible tells anyone anywhere to hate the blacks? You decide KKK is christian group or not. Muslims who kill because they're ignorant of the Quran - you decide. Hitler uses Swastika (cross-like symbol, holy to Buddhist) on his flag, does that made him Buddhist as well? What kind of a joke reply is this? Irrelevant. As for Wiccans, I have not read anything about that, mind showing me a link or something regarding this matter? <a href="http://www.religioustolerance.org/wic_conf.htm" target="_blank">http://www.religioustolerance.org/wic_conf.htm</a> <a href="http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2000/11/2/124046/533" target="_blank">http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2000/11/2/124046/533</a> My reply : When someone explains how energy that created enough matter and energy to form the Big Bang came from, then I can reconsider your suggestion that Buddha was Atheist. Go ask the atheists here what is "Begging the question", then we talk. My reply : You don't know the difference between Society's Law and Individual's Law? Common Law is law that governed by the Society - they debate pro and con and create laws which ALL members of the society will accept and follow. Religion is never a society law, it is individual law which a person uses to govern himself to lead a better life. Only religion ever try to make a Individual Law into a Society Law is Islam and see how "well" their society is (That's sarcasm for those who is wondering). Irrelevant. You need a law for obedience, no law means no obedience. Go read again what i said, thank you. My reply : At least this fallen "priest" target other, your Imans and holy-cows (people who follow Islam) target their own daughters and grand-daughters. For those outside Asian region, the report that old men (some as old as 70) got dragged into court almost every month with some sort of such allegations and most of the comes from Muslim society. Holy indeed (sarcasm again). Ran out of options and now declaring paedophile is better than incest. I bet your future kids will be proud of you. My reply : And since when does scientists and pharmacy use Religion and God to promote their product? Get the fact straight, Corgan, read and understand before replying. Irrelevant to this topic. I post what regarding this topic is about. You youself, yes; you, get your facts straight, not me. My reply : Now who is pushing unproven statements into someone else's throat? Begging The Question. Ask. My reply : I SEE plenty of your Islam crap every f%king day here. Islam in my point of view IS NOT religion but a cult that should have wiped out along side that mad man called Muhammad 1,400 years ago. Christianity is no different. Cult that should have been wiped out years ago and we will be far better. When I see a 1,000 year old statue in Afghan got blown away, I see Islam.* When I see Jerry Falwell saying Muhammad is terrorist, I see CHRISTIANITY. When I see a plane crash into a building in September last year, I see Islam. When I see televngelists storing millions of dollars in paycheck, I see CHRISTIANITY. When 180 innocent people get blown away in Indonesia and the a$$hole who is responsible for it smiles, I see Islam. KAH!KAH!KAH!KAH!KAH!KAH!KAH!KAH! yOU'VE JUST GAVE ME the best laugh of my life! hello, we don't know who blew the innocent people in Bali. All the links to JI and Al-Qaeda are S.P.E.C.U.L.A.T.I.O.N. Thank you! I see ENOUGH of Islam's sh#t in the world and don't you treat me like a blind man. Unfortunately, I do not see any proof regarding... My reply : Which one you prefering? Alexander the Not-So-Great? (forgot details about his death or I could make so sarcastic remark on it), or Genghis Khan - till now, no one knows where the hell he is buried - a great emperor who died like a dog. Read my points again. Please realise that I'm handling you like a kid's glove. Stalin DIDN'T support Hitler - I don't think Stalin was THAT mad and Hitler always were a loser. And America DID nuke Japs from here to hell and back, so stop this IF nonsense and get along with the history. You are dumb enough not to understand my statement properly. I was merely SPECULATING what if Stalin indeed support Hitler and what if American didn't bomb Japan. To make long story short bub, the case is unsolved - Yes, but I have a feeling he got what he deserved. Take it or leave it. You ran out of ideas, take it or leave it. My reply : I have no idea why you have Stalin so much. What did he do to you anyway. Mind giving some of his history so I could comment on him? I already stated my point. Stalin lived through his fucking regime and died peacefully without assasination or toppled by zealots. Where's God? Probably fucking another human virgin to send another Jesus on earth. Next. My reply : And where did you get this load of crap? You ignored my links about corrupt monks in Cari. Like it or not, you're the one running away. My reply : one of many I have to face nowadays. He screws up and I have to remind him about it. Do you notice my gloves are tearing apart now? Hhhhhmmmm? My reply : And WHO made them (greedy typhoons and bastards (pardon my french) like Soros) such? Buddhist monks who lived in moderate lives? NOPE, you and those who want to have big, expensive and show-off things. You want big cars, jewelleries, branded clothes etc till this greedy people suck your money. Why blame it on their greedness when you are the cause of it? What an amazing amout of crap. Don't sprout me that shit when the Vatican is still a multi-billion dollar industry. [deleted by moderator - Corgan Sow, I am warning you: please cool it down] [ October 23, 2002: Message edited by: 99Percent ]</p>

11-13-2002, 09:35 PM	#6
Uzi9mm Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: In front of my computer... Posts: 5	Religion can be used as an excuse for violence...

11-14-2002, 11:31 AM	#7
Vesica Regular Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Sunny FLA USA Posts: 212	Uh huh so can clothing style, political affiliation, living situation and just about anything else under the sun....However religion is a historically popular choice.

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