HaysooChreesto!

"Use the Force Luke"

Tani

what is immediate can't be another consciousness btw, that's how mediate/immdiate is defined, or we'd be able to cut our consciouness into pieces where each is an independent from the other, begging the question of who am i?

BioBeing

What about the suffering of newborn infants, too young to have been brainwashed into "accepting" Christ, and yet suffering some horrible cancer? How is that infant supposed to praise his/her suffering? What did that infant do to deserve such suffering?

Jobar

For those of you who haven't met Darth Dane before, he's not a Christian; he's a pantheist, drawing on imagery from many different religions.

Darth said
. Because depending on your belief system you are compelled to understand the world in certain ways.

That is very astute, I think. The way to deal with this is to believe as little as possible. After belief comes understanding; after understanding comes quiet. If you don't try to go beyond belief, you will never know peace.

Darth Dane

For those of you who haven't met Darth Dane before, he's not a Christian; he's a pantheist, drawing on imagery from many different religions.

I would like to correct you Jobar.
I am not a christian in the normal sense.
However I do believe in One God expressed in many ways.
This also allows for deities that functions below God, kinda like powerful angels if you will.

Darth said
. Because depending on your belief system you are compelled to understand the world in certain ways.

That is very astute, I think. The way to deal with this is to believe as little as possible. After belief comes understanding; after understanding comes quiet. If you don't try to go beyond belief, you will never know peace.

Ever heard: Ignorance is bliss?

I believe that when we acknowledge that we can´t know anything, we become like children. and as children we will enter the Kingdom of heaven which is within us and without us.
Children have a good way of choosing Love I see.


Tani: They are not separated, that is my point. You are one.

Biobeing: I don't know, why they are to be suffering, but when I hear their suffering I will do my best to alleviate their suffering. You see it goes both ways. You need to choose Love, the child is Gods tool, just like you and I are God's tool, whether or not we can actually see it.
So through this child God may be testing you, to see if you will help or not. God is also testing the child it's want for life. If the child didn't scream (ask) it wouldn't be given the treatment. The child hasn't learn to speak, so it does its best to get your attention by screaming.






Love

BioBeing

When I hear my children scream, I go pick them up and comfort them. Physically show them that I am there for them. My eldest has just been sick with the stomach flu, and I sat on the couch with him, just holding him, for a day. Sometimes that is all one can do (along with phenergan suppositories and tylenol). I did not see God taking a day off work to comfort him too, although my children do go to Church.

The child is God's tool. Lets examine that in light of an ever loving God, shall we? God is happy to test ME through an infant? To cause pain and suffering in an innocent child. So that I can choose love. Sounds as logical as giving me sin for what Adam and Eve did. And what of the child. Can an infant CHOOSE God? How does a 1 week/1day/1hour old baby know God, and which to choose? [And, if it cannot, and we are all born with original sin, them presumably when the baby dies it will go to hell. All to test me.] Why can I not just chose love (to soothe my sick child; to be the best that I can be) and it not require a God?

If this is a test for the parents, then why are some prayers answered, and others not? Some infants die in pain, others are allowed to live. Some are prayed for, some not. Can you prove to me a definite correlation one way or the other as to whether prayer works? Or is this loving God deaf? Or does it merely work in miraculous ways - ways which could be construed as being sadistic more than loving.

And – the child is supposed to get mine (and by extension – God's) attention by screaming? As I said above, I go to my children when they cry. I do not just let them scream and scream until they are sick. And then lie in a pool of vomit, too tired to scream any more. Or is this your answer to my previous question? Only if the child screams long enough and hard enough will God know that the child choses life, and so let it live. What, I must then ask, of all the children who do not get to scream their lungs out in order to live? Is there another set of rules for them? Should not a God of Love have a clearly defined set of criteria, one that is understandable and JUST? I mean, if it were written in a rule book “Scream, you live” then I would maybe say, OK, I gotta scream. But chosing people at random to cause suffering to in the name of testing our love seems, well, kind of extreme.

So, bottom line, all the pain and hurt and suffering in the world is a test created by the God of love? He created all the viruses and diseases to test us all? Is he up there saying “This hurts me more than it hurts you”? Or is it really just nature taking her course?

Beer God

In one post you say

but then in another you contradict yourself


Do you believe that we have free will, or that God imposes his/her/its will on us, whatever supernatural force you believe god to be?

Darth Dane

Beer God:

Do you believe that we have free will, or that God imposes his/her/its will on us, whatever supernatural force you believe god to be?

I believe it like this. God created a huge game, kinda like civilisation or simcity4. Within this game there are certain rules, like gravity and so on. All of us humans are walking around doing what we are programmed to do. Sometimes the humans because they have freewill, as per programmning, discover new ways of combining the ways it can manipulate the world. New things are invented. God can sit back and just watch the game, or change the programming so that he builds the pyramids, just because God could. God has full command of this game. When you realise you have full command because you were programmed to have freewill, you will become one with God.
God however has designed the game. God knows exactly how all the game mecahnics work, inside and out. upside and down. This means that if you follow your programming right now, as you have been doing, and not doing things in a new way, then God will know the exact outcome of all of teh games actions. We can co-create with God, if we so chooses.

I dunnno maybe?





BioBeing quote:

I did not see God taking a day off work to comfort him too, although my children do go to Church. No, but who do you look like in the eyes of the child? Are you not the good parent(God) to your child? Do you not follow the same command as God(if there is one) does? Loving your children?




The child is God's tool. Lets examine that in light of an ever loving God, shall we? God is happy to test ME through an infant? To cause pain and suffering in an innocent child. So that I can choose love. Sounds as logical as giving me sin for what Adam and Eve did. And what of the child. Can an infant CHOOSE God? How does a 1 week/1day/1hour old baby know God, and which to choose? [And, if it cannot, and we are all born with original sin, them presumably when the baby dies it will go to hell. All to test me.] Why can I not just chose love (to soothe my sick child; to be the best that I can be) and it not require a God?

Jesus said that we should be like chidlren if we wish to see heaven. What can we deduce from this?
If what heaven is like is as a child, then maybe God is a child? A child doesn't know it is doing wrong, unless it parents tells it what is left and what is right. Maybe we need to Love God(if there is one) as we would Love a child. With forgiveness for their silly notions, try to guide them as best you can, without hurting their ego, especially when teh child comes in the "Mine!" age.

Maybe?


If this is a test for the parents, then why are some prayers answered, and others not?

Those who die, maybe they have asked God that he take them Back. How can we know, how God(if there is one) communicates with children?

Can you prove to me a definite correlation one way or the other as to whether prayer works?

I dunno yet, but I will try my best to find out. All I can say is that God has answered some, yet let others slide.

Or is this loving God deaf? Or does it merely work in miraculous ways - ways which could be construed as being sadistic more than loving.

But chosing people at random to cause suffering to in the name of testing our love seems, well, kind of extreme.

So, bottom line, all the pain and hurt and suffering in the world is a test created by the God of love? He created all the viruses and diseases to test us all? Is he up there saying “This hurts me more than it hurts you”? Or is it really just nature taking her course?

:notworthy This is material for a stand-up joke or some. I laugh in Good heart.


Maybe it is like this.

We are on one side of the fence, God on the other.
We scream to God, and say why is it like this, why is the world in pain?
God looks at you and says: Look at what you have done to my creation, everything measured just like it should be. You come along and cause havoc. You may sit in your own filth. On the other hand, if you keep my highest commandment, to Love your neighbor as you Love thyself or your children, then we can talk business. If you wanna trade with me in my house(earth) it will be on my terms. My house my rules. If you wanna frolick around causing disharmony through killing, or polluting, or disrespecting your Mother Nature, then so be it, your Mother is staut but she can only withstand so much suffering.
If you treat me without Love, I will treat you without Love. An eye for an eye. tooth for tooth. I sent you my son, yet you wouldn't listen, he showed you they way to be. Acting through Love at every turn, with the mind of a child.

But ask in Love and you shall be given.

I dunno, is it like this?





Love

Calzaer

If all God does is say "Well, better get to work", isn't that exactly the same result as if there were no God at all?

WWSD

My cats usually say "meow" and sometimes "mao" because they are learning to speak Mandarin. Once in a while one will say "MEEOOOOWWWWWWW" becasue I am ignoring that one. Or they will hiss at each other. But never have I heard them say anything else.