Christopher Lord

After watching <a href="http://us.imdb.com/Title?0138704" target="_blank">Pi</a> again, I began wondering about the numerical nature of hebrew as depicted in the movie.

Is it really based on math to the degree shown? The example in the movie was Mother + father = child, with each word representing a numeral as well.

Creating such a language would be quite the challenge. If it is like this, to what degree? It would yeild some interesting poetry when you could use the sum or factor of two words!

Veil of Fire

I know a slight bit about that, but I know several people I could ask.

As far as I understand, yes, Hebrew is indeed based on math to a huge extent. Jews were the people who basically INVENTED numerology, IIRC (as well as some other complex mystical systems, many of which rely on complex ritual which are highly math-based).

I could be wrong... I'll pose the question to one of my friend (a Qabbalist *shudder*) and get back to you.

Jesse

Christopher Lord told me he meant to post this in Biblical Criticism & Archaeology, so I'm moving it there.

Christopher Lord

Thanks Jesse for the move, and Veil for looking into this.

Haran

Hebrew numerology is known as Gematria and is heavily used in mystic Judaism. It is an ancient system, some believe the OT was written with the Hebrew number system in mind so that codes can be found in it today...

Here are a couple of sites I found. I don't vouch for them except that they give examples of the numbers as they relate to the letters and some examples of words and their numerical equivalents:

<a href="http://www.jewfaq.org/alephbet.htm" target="_blank">Judaism 101: Hebrew Alephbet</a> (yup, that's Alephbet not Alphabet - the number stuff is about half-way down the page)
<a href="http://www.cs.utk.edu/~mclennan/OM/BA/SNHIG.html" target="_blank">A history of Gematria</a>
<a href="http://www.themystica.com/mystica/articles/g/gematria.html" target="_blank">Another history of Gematria</a>
<a href="http://www.jewishpath.org/gematria.html" target="_blank">Jewish Path Gematria</a>
<a href="http://wwnet.fi/users/pete/moshe.htm" target="_blank">General Gematria Info</a>
<a href="http://www.inner.org/gematria/gemfull.htm" target="_blank">Gematria</a>
<a href="http://www.mysticalinternet.com/gematria/index.php" target="_blank">Gematria word calculator...</a>
<a href="http://www.kolumbus.fi/gematria/" target="_blank">Messianic Gematria</a>

Oh well, that's quite a few. Do an internet search on Gematria (these came from Google) and you'll find a ton of other sites.

Greek letters were also used in a similar fashion. As for who borrowed from whom, your guess is as good as mine.

Haran

Haran

Ah hah... I found an example of what you mentioned.


English Hebrew Value
--------------------------------------------
father ab 1+2 = 3
mother am 1+40 = 41
child yld 10+40+4 = 44
============================================

father(3) + mother(41) = child(44)


From this website:
<a href="http://www.ac.aup.fr/a28243/gematria.html" target="_blank">Gematria</a>

I can vouch for the Hebrew words...

Haran

[ May 01, 2002: Message edited by: Haran ]</p>

Toto

The Greek-speaking writers of the NT Gospel also used gematria. You might be interested in this page:

<a href="http://www.jesus8880.com/homepage.htm" target="_blank">http://www.jesus8880.com/homepage.htm</a>

Haran

Toto, Gematria was more than likely used in Revelation for the number of the beast - 666. It was also possibly used for the number of fish (153) in the last chapter of the book of John.

Other than these, I think the website you posted stretches things way too far.

Haran

Toto

Haran - I guessed that you would think so.

All I know is that the movie Pi was pretty weird.

Haran

Then you know me well.

I've seen a book very similar to this (if it wasn't this one) in the bookstore one time. I have to say it is very interesting. However, there are a lot of number tricks that a person can play with just about any book if they really wanted to.

I haven't seen it, but now I'm curious.

Haran