Viti

Sure they can and they do...millions of people cheat on their spouses. They may face consequences for their actions though...look at the woman who ran her husband over with the car, look at the divorce statistics...a cheating spouse may find themselves financially harmed in a divorce. Look at the Lacey Peterson case...because her husband was unfaithful, he is the number 1 suspect in her disappearance. His trustworthiness as a person is in doubt and people will be hesitant to do business with him, and women will be hesitant to become involved with him.

meritocrat

A non sequitur. What is the rationale of a moral code if you're not free to follow it?

Why be concerned of society's judgements?

Viti

Because you have to live in society

Guillaume

I agree 100% with you. We really need to be concerned with society's judgments. Doing someone like cheating on your spouse is akin to being an homosexual, not believing in god ( in a religious community ) or holding an unpopular view ( such as being against war in Iraq ) : you really need to hide it well, or people will make life miserable to you. Look at the number of gay aggressed because of their sexual orientation, or the polls indicating that almost nobody would vote for an atheist president.

If you have an unpopular opinion or life style you really need to hide it, or face the consequences of your actions.

meritocrat

No one should be harassed because they possess 'unpopular views' (what is an unpopular view anyway, since everybody holds different views?) People are free to hold any views they choose, irrespective of whether 'society' approves of them or not.

Viti

What? Cheating on your spouse indicates you make agreements then do not live up to them...you break contracts, you are not trustworthy. This has consequences in any situation. If your job agreement is that you will be at work at 8 am and you decide to show up at 10 am every day, you have broken the contract and the consequence is you lose your job and don't get paid and may have a difficult time finding work in the future.

Being gay or an atheist or being against the war ar not in anyway "akin" to infidelity.

The AntiChris

No reason at all if you're not interested in societal acceptance. If your personal moral code is at odds with "society's judgements" you have to decide whether to be 'right' or 'popular'.
They're not.

They're only "harassed" if they openly express unpopular views. The degree of "harassment" will be dependent on the strength of the disagreement.
Of course you are but if you express an unpopular view, it's reasonable to expect others to express their disapproval.

Chris

Jamie_L

What do you mean the harm is self-evident? The harm is evident - clearly people express harm at being raped. Clearly people express harm from being cheated on.

And what does "clamping down" have to do with anything either? Not all moral questions are issues that need to be enforced. That doesn't make them amoral issues.

Jamie

Jamie_L

Your "non sequitur" claim is what is non sequiter.

You implied that a subjectivist should not be concerned with harming others. I responded by saying that some versions of subjectivism are concerned with harm to others (not all subjectivists are individual subjectivists - inter-subjectivism is concerned with the subjective views of more than just the individual). This is a response to correct an error in your assertion, so whether or not it is right, it is totally sequitur.

This is not the thread to go into detailed discussions of the different types of subjectivism. However, I'll say this: you clearly assume "subjectivist" = "individual subjectivism". You therefore assume everyone here who claims to be a subjectivist is an individual subjectivist. Neither is true. Therefore, your assumption that those of us here who claim to follow some form of subjectivism are inconsistent if we worry about harm to others is false.

For an excellent example of a subjectivist outlook that concerns itself with harm to others, check out Alonzo Fyfe's position in this thread.

Jamie

brighid

Infidelity is wrong (just as others have said) because one has entered into a contract with another human being that promised monogamy as a condition of that relationship. If one has to lie to ones mistress, and to ones spouse in order to maintain the "affair" the lies told harm the involved parties because they are deceived. They are unable to make accurate and educated choices about the course of their lives when they are led to believe things are one way although they are another.

Infidelity can also spread life and reproductive threatening diseases. This obviously harms any partner and is quite immoral to infect a person with one of these diseases when they have not chosen to engage in irresponsible sex with multiple partners. I think the potential loss of reproductive funtion, the increased chance of cancer (cervical for instance) and the potential infection with HIV, Hepatitis C, etc. are VERY harmful.

If children are involved in this relationship children feel VERY betrayed when one parent goes outside of the marital relationship and introduces another person into the family. It often causes alot of emotional strife and harm to the children who did not have a choice in the matter. Divorce is often a result (or the dissolution of a relationship) and I hope no one needs to go into the details regarding the harm divorce can and does cause family members.

If your partner cannot be trusted to keep his/her word with regard to their sexual activity it brings into doubt his/her ability to by trusted in other aspects of the relationship. Once that trust has been breached it is very difficult, if not near impossible to restore. It harms the relationship.

If you are unconcerned about societies judgments then perhaps you chose honesty as a relationship policy. If a partner will not engage in sexual activity with you, or provide you with the other benefits of a relationship because of your inability to remain faithful then you have chosen that path. If you lie to a partner and trick him/her into giving you what you want you are immoral, and should be treated as such.

Brighid