Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Radcliffe Emerson · 10-18-2002, 09:13 AM

You mean, god's not going to give me Jessica?

Autonemesis · 10-18-2002, 09:26 AM

The moment God does something that makes him scrutable, is the moment he ceases to be God. If I can discern his influence, then he is an object of scientific inquiry, and can no longer be thought of as supernatural or divine.

So nothing would convince me. The very concept itself does not admit to any possibility of a believer becoming convinced. One can only become converted.

CX · 10-18-2002, 09:44 AM

If an omnipotent, omniscient god existed, wouldn't said god know what it would take for me to believe? Why do I need to figure it out? Rather isn't the fact that I don't believe in and of itself a strong argument that either said god does not exist or said god does not care whether I believe or not? The truth is I have no idea what it would take to convince me that an all powerful, omnipresent god exists. The concept itself is so logically contradictory to the point of being incoherent that I can't imagine a way to prove to me that such a being exists. The point goes back to what I just said that it doesn't matter if I know because this god would know and the fact that I don't believe is evidence either that this god doesn't exist or that it doesn't care whether I believe or not.

CX · 10-18-2002, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by CX:
If an omnipotent, omniscient god existed, wouldn't said god know what it would take for me to believe? Why do I need to figure it out? Rather isn't the fact that I don't believe in and of itself a strong argument that either said god does not exist or said god does not care whether I believe or not? The truth is I have no idea what it would take to convince me that an all powerful, omnipresent god exists. The concept itself is so logically contradictory to the point of being incoherent that I can't imagine a way to prove to me that such a being exists. The point goes back to what I just said that it doesn't matter if I know because this god would know and the fact that I don't believe is evidence either that this god doesn't exist or that it doesn't care whether I believe or not.

I just thought of one thing. If George Burns suddenly appeared in the passenger seat and made it rain inside my truck. That would definitely do it. At least it worked for John Denver.

Ron Garrett · 10-18-2002, 09:56 AM

Can't we just go back and repost the last twenty times this was discussed this year?

bocajeff · 10-18-2002, 09:58 AM

Even if a being came down claiming to be God, and did the most amazing of feats before my eyes, how would I really know that being is God?

How could I, a finite being, tell the difference between an all powerful being like God and just a really super powerful being who seemed like God?

[ October 18, 2002: Message edited by: madmardigan ]

Tom Sawyer · 10-18-2002, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Can't we just go back and repost the last twenty times this was discussed this year?

No. We have to start this discussion from scratch. No copying and pasting from earlier threads is allowed.

Starboy · 10-18-2002, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by LadyShea:
I remember a Ray Bradbury story where everyone on Earth shared a dream where they were given the knowledge that the world would end that night. I think some shared worldwide event like that (hopefully not that the world was ending)...but I don't know.

What would it mean if everyone had that dream but the world did not end?

Starboy

rdalin · 10-18-2002, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by peteyh:
So basically, my question is, what would it take for you to believe? Are you like Paul, where a blinding light and booming voice would convert you or would you tell the guy to take his trick to Disneyland? What would a god have to do to show you that it exists?

Any clearly supernatural event would do.

I have a glass of ice water sitting on my desk. If it spontaneously started to boil, I'd certainly have to reevaluate my lack of belief.

Ab_Normal · 10-18-2002, 02:34 PM

[ramble]

Quote:

Originally posted by rdalin:
Any clearly supernatural event would do.

I have a glass of ice water sitting on my desk. If it spontaneously started to boil, I'd certainly have to reevaluate my lack of belief.

I would call somebody over to see it to get some independent verification that I wasn't hallucinating. Being able to take a video recording of the incident would really help too. Of course, I wouldn't be able to use this incident to prove to anybody else - videos can be faked, witnesses can be bought.

[/ramble]

10-18-2002, 09:58 AM	#16
bocajeff Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: HelL.A. Posts: 1,157	Even if a being came down claiming to be God, and did the most amazing of feats before my eyes, how would I really know that being is God? How could I, a finite being, tell the difference between an all powerful being like God and just a really super powerful being who seemed like God? [ October 18, 2002: Message edited by: madmardigan ]</p>

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10-18-2002, 09:13 AM	#11
Radcliffe Emerson Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: the dark side of Mars Posts: 1,309	You mean, god's not going to give me Jessica?

10-18-2002, 09:26 AM	#12
Autonemesis Contributor Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: I've left FRDB for good, due to new WI&P policy Posts: 12,048	The moment God does something that makes him scrutable, is the moment he ceases to be God. If I can discern his influence, then he is an object of scientific inquiry, and can no longer be thought of as supernatural or divine. So nothing would convince me. The very concept itself does not admit to any possibility of a believer becoming convinced. One can only become converted.

10-18-2002, 09:44 AM	#13
CX Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Portlandish Posts: 2,829	If an omnipotent, omniscient god existed, wouldn't said god know what it would take for me to believe? Why do I need to figure it out? Rather isn't the fact that I don't believe in and of itself a strong argument that either said god does not exist or said god does not care whether I believe or not? The truth is I have no idea what it would take to convince me that an all powerful, omnipresent god exists. The concept itself is so logically contradictory to the point of being incoherent that I can't imagine a way to prove to me that such a being exists. The point goes back to what I just said that it doesn't matter if I know because this god would know and the fact that I don't believe is evidence either that this god doesn't exist or that it doesn't care whether I believe or not.

10-18-2002, 09:56 AM	#15
Ron Garrett Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: United States Posts: 1,657	Can't we just go back and repost the last twenty times this was discussed this year?

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