winstonjen

Yet you still act arrogant and self-righteous. Oh wait, they're only sins for NON-Christians, right?

In which case, the Old Covenant was pointless. Why not just put the New Covenant in place from the beginning?

Dr Rick

Since the fact of evolution has even been accepted by the Vatican, I wonder if the Church can now explain the evolution of angels.

But that really doesn't make sense, for several reasons. One, you just got done telling us that God can't be in the presence of sin or evil, but He was when he defeated Lucifer. Two, there is supposed to be no sin in Heaven, but Lucifer sinned while he was in heaven. Three, angels aren't supposed to have free-will, but Lucifer seemed to demonstrate otherwise. Four, Lucifer knew god well, and so had to have known that it would be impossible to overthrow God, so why did he try? Five, why doesn't Christ bind Satan now rather than letting him and his minions run free tricking people? Six, what's the point of burning God's enemies rather than redeeming them, or is that yet another thing the omnipotent God can't do?

Ronin

Angels

...should answer all your questions.

Dr Rick

winstonjen

But they'll still be sinners, right?

Diadectes

Magus, this is doubletalk. If Jesus was born without sin then he wasn't fully human. Leaving aside the question of why he didn't inherit sin from Mary (after all, where does it say that Mary was sinless? Or are you suggesting that sin is only passed down by the father?) this raises the question of why Satan would bother to tempt a sinless man in the desert? It's nonsense. The whole business of the 40 days and nights in the wilderness (or however long it was) becomes nothing more than a menaingless exercise in divine posturing. And where does that leave the Passion, or, for that matter, the crucifixion? Jesus had no reason to worry or suffer, because he wasn't like you and me. Or so your reading suggests. Do you belive Jesus was a liar when he confessed his fear in the Garden of Gethsemane? No. I'm sure you don't. Which means you must accept that 'God' was not sitting inside him operating the controls in anything but a metaphorical way. Magus, by suggesting that Jesus was sinless and could not be tempted you have, in one fell swoop, rendered supernatural/fundamentalist Christianity a redundant force, with nothing truly relevant to say to the human condition. Well done. You have done the human race a great service.

May I suggest you now have a go at reading Don Cupitt, to help you through the difficult (but worthwhile) transition from fundy to neo-atheist that you will now, by your own logic, have to undergo. You will find him very useful.

Incidentally, you have still not answered my question about sin's limiting power on God.

paul30

The so-called Old Testament is the story of how the children of Israel escaped bondage in Egypt and came and conquered the land of Canaan.

They also conquered the gods of the land of Canaan, but instead of just booting them out, which might cause bad feelings, they diplomatically kept them, but demoted them--to angels.

You will notice that they have names ending in "el"--Gabriel, Michael, Uriel, etc.

The word "el" means "god."

That's because they once were gods, before the downsizing.

Rima

Angels - URIEL, Michael, Gabriel and Raphael serve in God's presence and act as God's messengers.

URIEL is also one of the same four angels mentioned in the Bedtime Sh`ma:

"May Michael be at my right, Gabriel at my left, Uriel before me, and Raphael behind me..."

these are only names and they don`t mean God (that is for sure)

Jews use hebrew names
Hebrew names have meanings
most hebrew names are finished with the sufix "EL" meaning: God, but this does not maen that they are Gods

lets take a look at these names you mentioned and their meanings:

gabriel: in hebrew letters is spelled as: GIMEL BEIT RESH YUD ALEPH LAMED

GABRIEL is from the Hebrew words GAVER meaning STRENGTH and EL meaning GOD. The YUD suffix to GAVER means - MY. then GABRIEL means - GOD IS MY STRENGTH. '
gabriel is not God himself

Michael:

MEM CAF YUD ALEPH LAMED.
it means :WHO IS LIKE GOD.
Michael is not God himself


URIEL: is a combination of two Hebrew words - URI meaning MY FLAME or MY LIGHT; and EL meaning GOD.
URIEL means : GOD IS MY FLAME, GOD IS MY LIGHT

ALEPH VAV RESH YUD ALEPH LAMED

[RAPHAEL:[/B] is a combination of two Hebrew words - RAFA meaning TO HEAL and EL meaning GOD. RAPHAEL - GOD IS HEALING.

RESH PEY ALEPH LAMED

all these are hebrew names , the sufix El olny means that this name is related to God like: God will Hear (ISHMAEL)
God is with us (EMANUEL), God will strengthen(EZEKIEL)
blessings

Rima

not only sufix el at the end of the word , but it could be sufix ELI (my God) in the beginning of the word :

Examples:

male names:

ELIZER:ELI-EZER is a combination of two Hebrew words -
EL meaning GOD and AZAR meaning HELP.
ELAZER - GOD HAS HELPED.
ALEPH LAMED AYIN ZAYIN RESH

ELISHA: ELISHA is a combination of two Hebrew words - EL
meaning GOD, and YESHA meaning SALVATION, HELP. ELISHA - GOD IS SALVATION.
ALEPH LAMED YUD SHIN AYIN

ELIYAHU: ELIJAH means THE LORD IS MY GOD. (Elijah in english)
ALEPH LAMED YUD HEY VAV

Female names:

ELIANA: is a combination of words - EL meaning GOD; and ANAH meaning ANSWERED. The YUD following EL indicates first person possession - MY. ELIANA means: MY GOD HAS ANSWERED.
ALEPH LAMED YUD AYIN NUN HEY

ELINOR : is combination of words -EL meaning GOD and NOR meaning LIGHT the YUD(I) indicates firs person possession (ELI=MY GOD) so Eliana means: MY GOD IS LIGHT.

Elizabeth: from the Hebrew ELISHEVA: means GOD'S OATH

so Hebrew names have very beautiful meanings and the sufix God in the beginnings or in the end it shows that Jews are very intimate with God and very respectful

emotional

Rima, what is your point? And what religion are you anyway?