LHP Adept

OK, so let's assume for the sake of discussion that I'm wrong, and there is a God in Heaven.

If He is an infinitely wise, all-knowing, and perfectly benevolent God, then what does He care whether I believe or not? Why would a being so much wiser than me care if I hold wrong-headed ideas about the origin of the universe, and my species?

Abrahamics (Xian, Muslim, & Hebrew) are constantly praising His name, and encouraging others to do the same. Why? What would the praise of such inferior beings mean to Him? How fragile is His ego, that it needs constant stroking from entities who are hardly capable of understanding the very greatness they praise?
For God to demand this of us would be like Jane Goodall teaching the gorillas to perform ritual obeisances to her. Sure, she's wiser and (if armed/equipped) more powerful than them, but surely there are other, better ways for her to pump up her self-esteem than to lord it over a bunch of ignorant beasts.

If God is truly all-wise and all-knowing, then He knows how great He is without us continually reminding Him. So what's with the need for incessant :notworthy ing?

Appius

Actually, it is because God is concerned with salvation. He takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that the wicked turn from his way and live. Once saved, faithful Christians wish to thank God. For instance, going to church is not for God alone, but rather first for forgivness and then praise.

EggplantTrent

Salvation from what? I'm an atheist. Does that mean I'm wicked? I am a moral person. I have a set of values that I do not compromise. I do not intentionally cause harm to anybody. I treat people with the same respect I'd like to be treated with, I do my best to live my life as a decent person. Is that not enough? Am I still wicked?

theophilus

Why don't you ask Him and find out. Hint: it's In The Book.

theophilus

What makes you think that any of that is moral?
It is in fact your assertion that you are a "good" person that is the greates affront to God who has declared you a sinner.

Besides, it is the height of ingratitude (and the essence of sin) not to acknowledge Him on whom your very existence depends. You assume that your life depends on natural forces; the fact that you can identify How natural forces may work says nothing about Why they work.

Silent Dave

They work because I will them to work. Simple.


Dave

Appius

The salvation is from sin.

We all are wicked sinners.
For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God
-Rom 4:23.

It is commendable that you lead a moral life, but everyone goofs up, for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified-see last part of Gal 2:16.

It just takes one sin for anyone to fail to meet the standard of the law. Moreover, if we fail to do something, which is right, we also sin.
Therefore to him that knows to do good, and does it not, to him it sin
-James 4:17

winstonjen

God is ultimately responsible for sin. By defining what he considered to be sin, he created it, and tempted us to 'sin' by creating it. Therefore it is his fault, and he should be burning in hell for all of his sin.

theophilus

Great. You can tell him that when you see him.

Seriously (please), sin is not a "thing," it is a condition. Specifically, it is "falling short" of perfect obedience to God's law. So, God neither created it, nor is he responsible for it.

Koyaanisqatsi

He created us, right?

That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, theo, even you must see this.

GOD: I created you!
MAN: Thank you, for I am good.
GOD: How DARE you say such a thing, for you are a SINNER!
MAN: But, you created me! How could you have created me a SINNER and why the hell are you punishing me for what you did?

So you're honestly arguing that the "essence" of sin--the second death penalty in hell--is that we weren't grateful to god for creating us all sinners to begin with and then punishing us for something we had nothing to do with?

Well, I guess that makes sense, then as to why the penalty is so extreme, if that's the kind of petty, childish, egotistical sonofabitch he really is!

It just will never cease to amaze me why it is you can't recognize such obvious human flaws in a being that is supposed to have the power to create the entire universe by will alone.

If you don't acknowledge me, you will burn eternally in a lake of fire!? Christ! Talk about low self-esteem!

Don't you think that's just a tiny bit extreme for a being that supposedly has the power to know what is in your heart and soul and mind just by will alone, if not due to any of his other alleged powers?

How could you possibly find such a trait worthy of worshipping, let alone acknowledging?

Nor does counter-positing an ineffable being that no man can ever know, who simply wills everything into existence, in order to punish us for not acknowledging him!

That's not just ludicrous, it is absurd, in the very literal definition of that word. You're positing a being that has the ability to blink galaxies into existence, yet if just one of the trillions of creatures he allegedly also blinked into existence doesn't acknowledge that he did all of this, we will be eternally punished, both body and soul, in the most unimaginable pit of despair and suffering ever concocted by mankind!

You don't see how that might, just possibly be more the machinations of men intent on controlling other men (and women) through fear, rather than a legitimate, unbiased consideration of what such a being would more likely be concerned with?

Or are you still of the mind that the unimaginably vast and incomprehensibly huge universe was all created as some sort of unbelievably irrelevant backdrop to what amounts to little more than a morality play of a handful of intelligent monkeys on one obscure, fring planet in just one obscure, fringe galaxy, believing in him or not?

ALL OF THIS just so humans can decide whether or not to believe this being created us?

Isn't it just possible that this is nothing more than the very human arrogance that you earlier admonished and claimed was the essence of sin?