Freethought & Rationalism Archive

SmartBlonde57 · 12-11-2002, 12:29 PM

Pennsylvania just passed a law requiring all students in all public and private schools to either recite the Pledge of Allegiance or sing the national anthem.

Students can decline to participate, but their parents will be notified.

Story here:

http://kyw.com/siteSearch/local_story_343222536.html

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-- Mary

http://www.smartblonde57.com

{old uBB format edited by Toto}

Mecha_Dude · 12-11-2002, 12:34 PM

i'm in PA and I never say the pledge, I don't even stand up. Fortunately my parents already know I do this. I have gotten a slight reprimand for mocking the pledge, though...

SmartBlonde57 · 12-11-2002, 12:34 PM

This just in: The Pennsylvania ACLU recommends that concerned Pennsylvanians file a complaint form with them. The form is available here: <a href="http://www.aclupa.org/legal/civil_liberties_complaint_form.htm" target="_blank">http://www.aclupa.org/legal/civil_liberties_complaint_form.htm</a>

Mention House Bill 592.

Even if you don't have children, they will want your input as a taxpayer.

=====
-- Mary
<a href="http://www.smartblonde57.com" target="_blank">http://www.smartblonde57.com</a>

dangin · 12-11-2002, 12:48 PM

Yes, everyone knows that mandatory allegiance is much better than voluntary, sincere allegiance.

Abacus · 12-11-2002, 01:12 PM

"We love Big Brother!"

"Not loud enough. Say it again. And say it like you mean it, or else!"

"WE LOVE BIG BROTHER!"

"That's better."

RufusAtticus · 12-11-2002, 01:37 PM

It requires PRIVATE schools too? I bet some JW school files suit.

Philosoft · 12-11-2002, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RufusAtticus:
<strong>It requires PRIVATE schools too? I bet some JW school files suit.</strong>

Interesting. Here's the passage in question:

Quote:

It takes effect in 60 days and applies to students in private and public schools.

But three paragraphs on, this:

Quote:

Private and religious schools can opt out for religious reasons.

I suppose this applies to JW schools, but most Catholic and Christian denominations lack doctrinal objections to reciting the pledge.

Either way, this whole thing makes a mockery of legislation and case law. This issue was decided by the SCOTUS 60 years ago. It astonishes me that educated, elected legislators can blithely draft legislation that is guaranteed to provoke multiple lawsuits. People complain endlessly about the proliferation of personal injury suits, but where is the outrage now?

RufusAtticus · 12-11-2002, 03:31 PM

I "love" laws like this.

1. Be is so forth inacted that every body must do X.

2. A person does not have to do X if they don't want to.

WTF is the purpose of the law again? Oh yeah, get votes from stupid voters.

Stephen Maturin · 12-11-2002, 04:28 PM

<a href="http://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI/BI/BT/2001/0/HB0592P4707.HTM" target="_blank">Here's</a> the bill's text. The Pledge of Allegiance provisions are near the bottom of the page.

As Rufus correctly notes, the bill doesn't actually "require" anything thanks to the opt-out provision. The bizarre part is this parental notification horseshit. That's a new one on me, and seems to be what the ACLU has been most concerned about ever since the bill was first introduced. In this time of infinite tolerance and univeral concern for individual freedom of conscience, I imagine the standard written notification looking something like this:

Quote:

Dear Parent:

I am writing to inform you that your treasonous heathen spawn refuses to say the Pledge of Allegiance. You will surely agree that if such outrageous public defiance toward God's chosen nation is allowed to stand, the terrorists have won.

Accordingly, we strongly recommend that you make proper amends to the Almighty by arranging to have the offending child stoned to death forthwith. Unless you notify us within five (5) business days that a public stoning has been scheduled, we will assume that you want us to make the arrangements for you.

In Jesus's Name,

Polly Prissypants
School Administrator

Splat · 12-11-2002, 05:37 PM

Here's what I'd write if I were a school administrator:

Quote:

Dear Parent

Your daughter/son has refused to be coerced into foregoing his/her right to free speech and expression by remaining silent during the legislatively mandated recitation of the pledge of allegiance. By so doing, your daughter/son demonstrates true patriotism. Clearly, you are raising your child right. As such, I commend you and your family.

Sincerely...

12-11-2002, 12:29 PM	#1
SmartBlonde57 Regular Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: no longer here Posts: 100	Pennsylvania students required to recite the Pledge Pennsylvania just passed a law requiring all students in all public and private schools to either recite the Pledge of Allegiance or sing the national anthem. Students can decline to participate, but their parents will be notified. Story here: http://kyw.com/siteSearch/local_story_343222536.html ===== -- Mary http://www.smartblonde57.com {old uBB format edited by Toto}

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12-11-2002, 12:34 PM	#2
Mecha_Dude Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Everywhere... I'm Watching you... Posts: 1,019	i'm in PA and I never say the pledge, I don't even stand up. Fortunately my parents already know I do this. I have gotten a slight reprimand for mocking the pledge, though...

12-11-2002, 12:48 PM	#4
dangin Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: The Middle, Kansas Posts: 2,637	Yes, everyone knows that mandatory allegiance is much better than voluntary, sincere allegiance.

12-11-2002, 01:12 PM	#5
Abacus Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: South Dakota Posts: 2,214	"We love Big Brother!" "Not loud enough. Say it again. And say it like you mean it, or else!" "WE LOVE BIG BROTHER!" "That's better."

12-11-2002, 01:37 PM	#6
RufusAtticus Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: NCSU Posts: 5,853	It requires PRIVATE schools too? I bet some JW school files suit.

12-11-2002, 03:31 PM	#8
RufusAtticus Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: NCSU Posts: 5,853	I "love" laws like this. 1. Be is so forth inacted that every body must do X. 2. A person does not have to do X if they don't want to. WTF is the purpose of the law again? Oh yeah, get votes from stupid voters.

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