scumble

I've been thinking that maybe there aren't actually any real Christians.

Why don't priests sell all their belongings, give the proceeds to the poor in some manner, and then travel around like ascetics, actually telling people to treat others as they'd like to be treated, and love their neighbour as themselves (just like Ned Flanders). Do they go around trying to heal people? Not really.
No Christian actully does what Jesus teaches, and thus fall into the category of "Everyone who hears these words of mine and does not do them is like a foolish man who built his house on sand."

scumble

Sorry if it seems harsh - must have really gone into a rant there...

excreationist

About selling all your belongings and giving the money to the poor:

Matthew 19:21-26
I think Jesus means that rich Christians can stay rich... as long as they trust in him as their saviour or something.

It goes on to say this:

Matthew 19:27-30
[ August 06, 2002: Message edited by: excreationist ]</p>

HelenM

Actually I think Christians would agree with you about their failure to keep the standards laid out in the NT by Jesus. That's why they are thankful that they are saved by grace, not by what they do.

Paul pointed out that until you have a rule to keep you don't realize how bad you are at keeping it. He said, in that way the law (the 'rules', the 'standards') show people why they need to be saved by God's grace through faith in Jesus.

I think you'll find I'm right if you saying what you posted to a conservative Christian! I mean, that they agree wholeheartedly about their failure to live up the NT standards. In a way, it proves to them their need of Christ...

love
Helen

tommyc

So they will admit they they are failing to live up to Christ's teachings, then still do nothing about it? Surely it's not too hard to give away a majority of your earnings if you are rich, if you believe that it is God's will. And if you don't, you are surely not merely failing His example, but refusing to even try?

Kosh

No, you're right. THis was exactly one of the thoughts that led to my deconversion. I began to realize it was more of a social club...

Vibr8gKiwi

I dunno where the true Christians are. When I see someone being bitten by rattle snakes while drinking draino and having no ill effects I might think I've stumbled on an actual Christian (as per the tests for true believers at the end of Mark).

Duvenoy

All very simple. The snakes mostly handled are Copperheads - very mild venom - Timber rattlesnakes - reluctant to bite in defense, and cottonmouths, also relitivly mild.

I'm not a religious snake handler, but I keep some 14 venomous snakes for educational purposes - presentations in schools, and so forth (and because I enjoy having these remarkable creatures around). I've had my share of bites over the years, including 2 of the 3 mentioned (never had a Timber take a swing at me) as well as others. And, over the years, I've become aquainted with some of the religious snake-handlers. Believe it or not, they are very interesting people and generaly nice folks.

When drinking strychnine, not enough is taken for a fatal dose, usually.

Howsomever, every now and then, one of the faithful dies from either venom or poison. In the case of snakes, it's when they branch out into something like one of the big diamondbacks (the western is a guarenteed bite and a bad scene afterward) or an Elapid such as one of the larger cobras. And, once in a while, a big Timber will get a little pissy.

I seem to recall that one died recently from drinking strychnine. I'll be seeing a friend in Oct. at the Southeast Hot Herp Society meeting. I'll ask about it.

doov

Debbie T

Haven't you noticed that when Christians do something wrong and it is pointed out, other Christians jump up and claim they aren't true Christians? By their own standards I must conclude that any Christian who sins is not a true Christian. Either that or Christians sure turn on their own kind like a pack of wolves.

Shudder, so glad I am not a Christian anymore, it is a crazy-making lifestyle!

I ate Pascal's Wafer

Hi Helen. I haven't really discussed things very much with you before, but I did want to jump in on this point.

I think I can understand your point about the saving grace. Basically, being imperfect beings, we cannot hope to live up to the standards of God. Thus, it is impossible for us to do good all of the time. Since we cannot be perfect all the time, we do not deserve entrance into heaven. God knows this, but takes pity on us and allows us to enter heaven if we repent and put our trust in Him. Am I close?

The problem I have is that one does not intentionally continue sinning if one is truly repentent. If Christians know they are not living up to Biblical standards, and do not do anything about it, I doubt they are truly sorry for their sins. I also doubt that God, if he exists, would still admit them into heaven for this.

I imagine God can excuse imperfection as long as that person is striving to improve. If that person is content to continue sinning, I imagine that person would be in for a shock when he arrives at the pearly gates.

-Nick