Hired Gun

I never make the statement that atheists are immoral. I was a moral atheist for many years. I just recognize the fact that without divine authority, an atheist has no logical basis for his or her morality.

A.S.A. Jones

NOTE: This thread was originally part of QoS's Nutwatch: Ex-Atheist.com but was far to interesting a discussion for the Humor forum. -Huginn

Puam

moral uh? Well, you were talking a lot about manipulating this and that.... suuuuuuure.
Or what about the so-called loss of compassion? That's moral too.

Anyway, this is way too serieus for this thread, ... Kant got it all figured out centuries ago...

Hired Gun

My manipulation of people, and loss of compassion for them, didn't come until years after my embrace of atheism. Also, I am only speaking for myself, not other atheists, when I give my autobiographical account. Frankly, I don't consider ridiculing people for their beliefs as moral either, but hey, that's what this thread is all about. Without God, morality is merely contrasting but equal opinion.

Yes, this type of discussion is indeed too 'serieus' for this thread. I shall let you have your fun in peace. It's such a drag when an opponent is capable of defending his point of view. Sucks the fun right out of the game! Of course, if any of you are up to seeing just how well I can defend my position, just start the thread and let me know.


A.S.A. Jones

Puam

So it wasn't because of atheism? Oh, I completely misunderstood you then. So, it can happen again, possibly even because you are a christian?

That's ok with me. I'm not the judge of your personal feelings or convictions. I do have my problems with it; but I think you got that already.
But if you are only being autobiographical, then why the various 'tips' for debating atheists and skeptics? You are not getting away with calling it "witnessing".

"merely", "but", ... I'd say that without Gawd, we'd loose a lot of humour...

I guess you meant "incapable" and I guess you mistook my remark of offtopicness as a weakness to debate it. Oh well, have it your way, since it's only an autobiography...

Keatslover

Well, at least this one isn't a bible literalist and I have to admit that it's not only reason that makes up the human mind. But what this person has over-looked is that the human mind in it's artistic subjective form goes both ways. If the human mind can spot these puzzles of illusion, then it can create them as well. Granted, if he can go through the bible and come up with some meaning to tie into it and back it up, he'll have one helluava English paper. Perhaps the Bible does have an underlying meaning but that doesn't mean it has to be super-natural. After all, the puzzles he uses as examples are all man made. Don't sell short the human ability to create puzzles as well as figure them out.

keyser_soze

Why start a thread, just join any one of a few dozen that are already in progress. Be warned however, that you better be on the ball. I would suggest moral foundations forum, since you seem to not be grasping how a moral system can exist independantly of a sky daddy. Just participate.

Hired Gun

It was because of atheism that I reached a logical conclusion that allowed me to lose my compassion for other people. I realize that not everyone who holds an atheistic belief will follow that belief to its logical end, and/or act upon that conclusion if it is eventually reached.

The only way I can logicallysee me losing my compassion for people again is if I lose my faith. I don't deny the possibility that I may lose my compassion for others through an illogical or hypocritical avenue. However, I intend to be neither.




Well, I vaguely got that impression, yes.



The comments that you addressed were located in my autobiography, "From Skepticism To Worship". My goal to teach Christians how to logically defend their faith has nothing to do with my autobiography. I never confuse debate with witnessing and I even make the statement in "Your Best Witness",

"What is the best way to witness to an atheist? Live your Christianity, don't debate it."

When I enter debate, it is not to witness to my opponent, but to systematically destroy his arguments against my faith.



No, I meant exactly what I said and I also acknowledged the fact that our current conversation is off topic and I have, therefore, presented you with an opportunity to continue our little discussion elsewhere. I have complete confidence in your ability to grind me into the ground. Surely, you would not pass up the chance to showcase your superior intellect?

A.S.A. Jones

Hired Gun

I've just got done arguing about morality with Vorkosigan and stevencarr here: http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/sho...278#post105278

Thanks for the warning. I'd really hate to go into such a thread unprepared.

A.S.A. Jones

Hired Gun

When a puzzle is purposefully created, it involves intention of design. While I can see one very intelligent individual sitting down and coming up with a design and then going on to manufacture the pieces of the puzzle, I can't see a dozen individuals, working independently of each other, managing to come up with puzzle pieces that fit to form a design of which they weren't even aware.

A.S.A. Jones

keyser_soze

Did you really feel that you had won that argument? Because it appeared you did, and honestly, I cannot figure out how you reached that conclusion.