jojo-sa

TO all

So basically no one wants to provide proof or even answer my questions.

Read my posts again . I answer the posts of warraq and i get no response.

I ask don questions , like will he let me raise his kids as muslims he does not answer.

orphy straight out admits he wont read up on the koran. so all his comments in future are ignored.

how can i give comments on atheism if i refuse to find out about it.

please answer the questions i asked.

as for me i am not perfect never claimed to be.

i just ask some questions and get huge paragraphs of no answers no proofs just blabberings with no backup.

peace

jojo-sa

don

please right this book of yours that will not be able to be misunderstood.

i would like to read it.

this is what i have beeen asking all the time.

what have atheist to offer?

i want to see your complete system.

dont just bark write the book so i can read it and see if it works.

peace

jojo-sa

on rushdie a cant answer cos i never read his book, and besides death penalty is the heaviest punishment for apostacy,which means there are other in between rules, like exile etc.

in same way chopping off hands are also heaviest punishment for theft , and in between one can do other things depending on the situation eg. if someone steals fruit that was not locked up because he was hungry and could not buy, his hands will not be chopped of.

as for pakistan i cant say cos i dont know how the institue islam there seing i dont live there.

basically you all jabber alot but fail to read up,

imagine me jabbering on how you all (atheist) are absurd and stupid on the advice of all theist, without even consulting the atheist.

thats is why i am here. i ask why you follow what you follow.

it "seems" none or very little of you do that.

stop blabbering and read

peace

jojo-sa

I'm not sure that I have the patience to go on some sacred-book wild goose chase.
so ipeterh?? also refuse to read up, his comment are ignored too. untill he decides to read up .

even though he is old whiz kid computer programmer.

my 8 year old nephew also writes programs so i dont get what his blabbering about.

dont be a sheep read make your own deductions.

Ysabella

Don, are you sure about that, even after 1000 or 2000 years? For that to work, you'd have to write the thing quite clearly, and the problem is no one would buy it without some horoscope-like generalization and obfuscation, until everyone could see what they want in it (even Amos). It'll never sell without that.

But a supernatural being should be able to write a document that is (a)clear and not able to be misunderstood and (b)reveals its truth to each person in turn. It should be easy if you're omniscient and all that.

Of course, many Muslims are convinced that this is exactly what they have, and it's so totally clear to everyone. Lots of Xtians (like my sister) believe similarly about the Bible. *sigh*

Incidentally I read a pretty good <a href="http://www.hissyfit.com/hissyfits/2001_10_02.shtml" target="_blank">essay</a> about Islam. I don't totally agree with the author on everything, but I haven't studied Islam as much as she has (however I've actually been to an Islamic country and she never has, to my knowledge). I don't think Islam is so totally wonderful, although it's quite lovely in some ways - but I do wish more Americans knew more about it, that's all.

Thor Q. Mada

Dear jojo-sa,

Long time ago, when young , I have tried and have read parts of the koran, bible, and the thoras, as well as part of the veda's. I wasted my time and I am sorry about that.
These books are full of hatred, jealousy and narrow mindedness (with maybe the veda as exception), and contain society rules which have long lost their usefullness. All these books are not written by god, but by scared humans, trying to set rules and most of all hold their grip on society. God did not create us. We created god. There is nothing holy about these books. In fact any book that needs an institution to be studied and understood will be used by that institution for its own means which is usually self preservation. Also what people in general call religion, has nothing religious anymore, but especially in the case of the dogmatic religions, has all to do with tradition.
Tradition, and religion, the great confusion.
As a humanist, I am against burning of books, but these three books in question are surely asking for it.
Peace.

jojo-sa

thor

Thanks for your opinion,

at least you attempted to read some books.

for sure the system in the book can be a bit involved.

is not a law system involved, do a lawyer not take many years to study it?

as a kid one cannot grasp many things.
one first need to crawl before one can walk.

thanks anyway for the input, and i hope you relook into those books. bible,quran,torah,bagawad ghita

i am sure you will see things now that you did not see before.
perhaps it will strengthen your current view and just give you more information to battle people like me, would that not in its own be worth it???

Thor Q. Mada

Thanks jojo-sa,

It is fun indeed. Have a good day.

DMB

Jojo-sa:

I politely asked you some specific questions, to which you hardly gave any answer. I will repeat them:

<ol type="1">[*]Do you approve of the call to believers to kill Rushdie for his "blasphemy"?[*]Do you approve of the death penalty for "blasphemy" as currently practised under islamic law in Pakistan?[*]Do you approve of the death penalty (or any penalty) for apostasy?[*]Do you approve of the inequality of the sexes, as enjoined by the koran and practised in many islamic countries?[*]Do you approve of the inequality of treatment of believers and dhimmi as traditionally practised in islamic countries?[*]Do you believe in the concept of the dar al-Harb and the dar al-Islam?[*]Do you accept the Universal Declaration of Human Rights?[/list=a]

On (1) you gave the following answer:

As an answer to (2) you gave:
You attempted no answers to the other questions but simply came up with a rude and inaccurate comment:

Now I asked you this questions in an attmept to understand where you stand as a muslim on certain contentious points of islamic doctrine and practice. The fact that you dodged even an attempt to answer most of them and instead made a totally unnecessary ad hominem attack suggests that you are the one who doesn't know all that much about islam.

Questions (1) and (2) were designed to elicit your views on punishment for blasphemy in general, not necessarily only in particular cases. The Rushdie fatwa calls on believers to murder Rushdie, who is living in a country with a secular constitution. The fact that you have or have not read his book is irrelevent. Do you approve of religious calls to murder someone for "blasphemy"?

In question (2) I merely added "as practised in Pakistan" as an example of what happens when a country tries to follow the Shar'ia. Can you explain why you think that blasphemy should be punished at all?

You also appear to have confused "blasphemy" and "apostasy". "Blasphemy", which is always virtually impossible to define, roughly means saying or writing something offensive about a religion, or its god, or its holy book. "Apostasy" means giving up one's religion.

If you want to be taken seriously here, I suggest you make a more serious attempt to answer my questions.

jojo-sa

if the blasphemer is guilty of apostacy and lives in a proper islamic state as when the prophet was alive and the 4 caliphs then yes he is guilty of treason and should be killed.

so in my opinion rusdhie dont fit all those points so should not be killed,

in my opinion the only time islam was implemented properly was in the time of the prophet and the 4 caliphs. there will come atime again when this be and this is in the time of the last "mahdi",leader (not sure when this will come but signs are there already)this is when apostacy again should come with death penalty.

this should cover apostacy and blaspheme.

the quran dont show inequality of sexes. show me other wise then we can discuss. what people practice i have no power over.for the record some things the taliban did i sure am against. eg. they forced women to cover there faces, woman could not work etc.

in my ignorance i do not know about al harb etc. please explain what this is then i will try to answer. (i never claimed to know everything)

what is universal decleration of human rights?
show me from Quranic quotes where islam differs

this question is just to vague.

then we can discuss.

and for therecord. who gave you authority to decide that your questions are the judge whether i am to be taken seriously or not???

peace