Mithrandir

I am just asking everyone who does not believe in God this question:

Why do you not believe in God, how did you come to this conclusion?

Just asking. Not to argue, I just would like to know some of the different reasons people have.

Mithrandir

hezekiah jones

Which "God"?

Ender

I am he who is called I AM!

Vorador

I don't believe in God because I fail to see any sort of evidence for any God, let alone the Christian God. Every religion claims to be 'the only religion worth following' and no religion really seems to offer any proof whatsoever. Also, none of these Gods are SHOWING themselves. It's great and all if someone can believe in a God, but faith, to me, is believing in something without having any sort of... well, factual basis, let's put it, for that belief. It's a good thing to have but there's really no evidence that I can see. If one would point out some solid, end al be all evidence, then I mighjt be inclined to believe. But until then, I don't really believe in any God, because there is as much proof for one as any other. That proof being, in my eyes at least, none at all.

philechat

1. I have too vivid an imagination...and when I imagined HEAVEN it gave me cold sweats and chills.

2. I lived in a nation of miracles, and therefore the miracle of Jesus' resurrection is old wives' tale compared to the even more fantastic ones in Taiwan

3. Why don't you believe in Allah, Zeus, Vishnu, Ma-Zu?

snatchbalance

Mithrander

No Joke: As a teenager, I took various halucinagens, had a number of "psycadelic" experiences. During my thirties, I went on a quest for "spirtuality" and had a number of "mystical" experiences. There was no detectable difference between the two sets of phenomenon.

With this in mind I examined the logic behind the claims to the existence of god; there is none. In my mind, causality is the strongest argument in favor of the existance of god; and that falls apart after a single iteration.

Neither is there any emperical or strong historical evidence to support any such claims.

There is no need for such things.

SB

[ May 07, 2002: Message edited by: snatchbalance ]</p>

sighhswolf

When I was a child, I thought as a child....
when I became a man, I put away childish things.
wolf

mjolner

Non-Falsifiability - can your claim be falsified? - if not, it's meaningless.


The Philosopher John Popper can be given credit for the idea above. It may seem like a simple idea. That's because it is. However, like so many simple ideas it goes largely unnoticed and is almost completely unappreciated. Too bad, because it is a very sound argument and it is applicable to so many things in this modern day and age.


Here is how it goes:


Claim: Albert Einstein is staying in my basement.



Imagine that. Wow. What an incredible claim! That would be about the most amazing thing I've heard in a while. "Let's go see him", I would say, with an intense eagerness to meet one of the greatest minds of the 19th Century.


What do you think the response will be?.... Our friend will probably not be too forthcoming, but let's continue as a thought experiment.


So, we have now convinced our good friend to allow us to meet Mr. Einstein in his basement. "Where is he", I would ask.


Friend: "Well, you can't see him."
Me: "Is he hiding?"
Friend: "Don't be silly. He is dead. Didn't you know?"
Me: "Well I thought he was until you told me he was staying here."
Friend: "He is staying here."
Me: "How. Did you dig him up and bury him here?"
Friend: "I said don't be silly. His ghost is here. So he is invisible."
Me: "So how do you know he is here if he is invisible?"
Friend: "I can see him."
Me: "Let's throw some flour on him so I can see him too."
Friend: "He's a ghost. It will fall right through him."
Me: "Can't he leave footprints or write equations in the flour?"
Friend: "Nope, I said he is a ghost. Aren't you listening? He is incorporeal."
Me: "Okay. Okay... ahemm. Excuse me Mr. Einstein, I've got a question.... Hello...?!?"
Friend: "What are you doing?"
Me: "Isn't he here? I am trying to talk to him."
Friend: "Only I can talk to him."
Me: "Great, can you ask him a question for me?"
Friend: "Sure."
Me: "I understand that the momentum exchange between baryons and photons due to Thomson scattering follows by noting that for a given velocity perturbation the momentum density ratio between the two fluids is...
Friend: "Wait a moment"
Me: "What now?"
Friend: "He doesn't like to talk physics anymore."
Me: "Are you kidding?
Friend: "He says there are more important things to talk about. Like world peace and that we should take care of our planet and stop polluting it before it is too late."
Me: "Can he tell me anything that you or I don't already know? You know, something useful. Anything at all. Just so I can be sure he's here."
Friend: "Well, I can't really ask him anything directly. I just kind of get a general idea."
Me: "Yet you know that it is definitely Einstein?"
Friend: "Yes."
Me: "So what you are saying is that Einstein is invisible, yet only you can see him. Nobody can hear him except for you. He can't be touched and can't make his physical presence known in any way. He also, stranglely enough, refuses to talk about the very thing he was most interested in when he was alive."
Friend: "I can see that you are quite skeptical and are probably not willing to believe."
Me: "Didn't I give you the benefit of the doubt (no pun intended, really) when I came down here to see him? When I tried to talk to him, and also when I asked you to talk to him for me when you made it clear he couldn't speak to me?"
Friend: "Don't try to twist this around to suit your own preconceptions. You are just not willing to believe."
Me: "Quite the contrary. I am most ready to believe. I just don't know what exactly to believe just yet."
Friend: "What do you mean by that?"
Me: "Well, you see I have two options as far as I can tell. One is that you are pulling my leg. The other is that Einstein is really here just as you say. That would mean that if he was really here I would be accepting that he is invisible, untouchable, completely silent and unwilling to tell me anything of value through you. Under these conditions, there is simply no way for me to know if he is really here. To be quite honest, I just don't know how to tell the difference between that and nothing at all."
Friend: "So you don't trust me? You are calling me a liar."
Me: "Hey, please don't take any offense. Remember, I am the one who showed sincere interest in meeting Mr. Einstein. I am the one that followed you down to the basement to meet him. I gave you every opportunity to introduce me to him. I simply wouldn't miss the chance of meeting such a great man, especially under such strange circumstances. So shouldn't I be the one who feels a little offended or a little disappointed when I find out that there is no way that I can be sure that he is here?"
Friend: "Well, I believe that he is here because I talk to him. You can't prove that he isn't here."
Me: "Maybe then you can see my point. It's true that I can't prove that he isn't here because (again I have to point this out) I can't see him, touch him, or even communicate with him. There is simply no way for me prove something that can in no way be shown to be either true or false. I can't falsify your claim because it is so elusive that it cannot be put to any conceivable test. Until you can back your claim with some type of definitive test it is simply more likely that you are pulling my leg."
Me: "I am sorry you feel that way"
Friend: "No need to feel sorry for me."

mjolner

the point is that the concept of a god is just as unfalsifiable as einstein being in my basement. or as carl sagan said, a "purple dragon in my garage".

The Other Michael

Hi Ender,

I've always thought that Popeye had a certain godly air about him when he said "I AM what I AM, and that's all that I AM", though he might actually have been saying YAM instead of AM, according to some sources.

And since Bluto is very close in sound to Pluto, god of the underworld, then he must be the devil.

And Olive Oyl must be the Holy Virgin (first cold press no doubt).

It all comes clear to me now!
cheers,
Michael