Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Slex · 11-07-2002, 06:40 AM

I've been trying to figure it out, but I just can't find an answer. I recently read an <a href="http://www.christianitytoday.com/bc/2002/006/2.10.html" target="_blank">article</a> , actually this is a review of a book, but it also took me nowhere... Can anyone come up with an explanation or maybe with recommended reading?

ImGod · 11-07-2002, 06:48 AM

They persecuted all the religious nutcases until they decided to come here.

.

Amen-Moses · 11-07-2002, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ImGod:
They persecuted all the religious nutcases until they decided to come here.

.

No decided about it, we kicked them out.

Criminals to Australia, religious nuts to America. Made perfect sense at the time but in hindsight it may have been a BIG mistake.

Amen-Moses

Jamie_L · 11-07-2002, 06:59 AM

I've recently found an interesting correlation (though not necessarily causation): Most Eurpoean countries have a "state church", and never officially separated church and state.

The U.S. on the other hand, has had a fairly strict separation of church and state, and yet hear we are with one of the most religious populations in the industrialized world.

Maybe separation of church and state really IS good for religion as much as it is good for the government. Conservative Christian politicians might do well to take note of that.

Jamie

simian · 11-07-2002, 06:59 AM

They have experience religion being in complete control of their lives (in a historical sense). Damn you Australia, you got the decent people (the criminals) we got the insane (the wacko religious)!!!

Simian

seanie · 11-07-2002, 07:00 AM

Ooooh. Difficult question.

I think one reason may be because we spent hundreds of years knocking the seven bells out of one another.

For various reasons; religion, imperial ambition, resources, glory etc. But for every occassion we successfully beat the crap out of someone else, someone beat the crap out of us.

After a few hundred years of that you realise that whether or not God exists he's certainly not on your side. Once you realise that religion and god become less central to national identity. It becomes more personal, more discreet, less important.

Tony Blair is religious. That doesn't really matter either way to most people. But if he gave a speech about how the UK was a nation blessed by God, dependent upon him for our economic, mental, physical, moral and spiritual well-being, we'd cart him off to the funny farm.

seanie · 11-07-2002, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Amen-Moses:


No decided about it, we kicked them out.

Criminals to Australia, religious nuts to America. Made perfect sense at the time but in hindsight it may have been a BIG mistake.

Amen-Moses

We shoulda screened the transportees for skill with ball and bat.

Coulda saved a lot of pain and humiliation.

Seeker196 · 11-07-2002, 07:07 AM

Read the history of the 30 years war leading up to the Religious Peace of Augsburg.

Imagine a war so long, so terrible, so mind blastingly stupid that even hardcore Calvinists sat down with direst, Inquistion, pre-Council of Trent Catholics in order to make peace.

ImGod · 11-07-2002, 07:17 AM

Religion fits into the entertainment economy over here very well. If they continue their effective marketing and political lobbying, it won’t be long and multi-billion dollar religion industry will be bigger than the porn industry. Well maybe not.

11-07-2002, 08:34 AM

I've lived in Europe, and I can't help thinking it has something to do with having several hundred years of their own religious history in their faces all the time. Several hundred years of human cruelty, persecution, stupidity and excess in the name of religion. We're a young nation and tend to run away with our own egotism. WE will be different, WE can do religion correctly. They know better, because they can't ignore the evidence all around them.

My 2c.

[ November 07, 2002: Message edited by: Jagged Little Pill ]

11-07-2002, 06:40 AM	#1
Slex Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Bulgaria Posts: 68	Why Europe is more secular than the US? I've been trying to figure it out, but I just can't find an answer. I recently read an <a href="http://www.christianitytoday.com/bc/2002/006/2.10.html" target="_blank">article</a> , actually this is a review of a book, but it also took me nowhere... Can anyone come up with an explanation or maybe with recommended reading?

11-07-2002, 08:34 AM	#10
Jagged Guest Posts: n/a	I've lived in Europe, and I can't help thinking it has something to do with having several hundred years of their own religious history in their faces all the time. Several hundred years of human cruelty, persecution, stupidity and excess in the name of religion. We're a young nation and tend to run away with our own egotism. WE will be different, WE can do religion correctly. They know better, because they can't ignore the evidence all around them. My 2c. [ November 07, 2002: Message edited by: Jagged Little Pill ]</p>

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11-07-2002, 06:48 AM	#2
ImGod Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Nebraska Posts: 6,264	They persecuted all the religious nutcases until they decided to come here. .

11-07-2002, 06:59 AM	#4
Jamie_L Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: U.S. Posts: 2,565	I've recently found an interesting correlation (though not necessarily causation): Most Eurpoean countries have a "state church", and never officially separated church and state. The U.S. on the other hand, has had a fairly strict separation of church and state, and yet hear we are with one of the most religious populations in the industrialized world. Maybe separation of church and state really IS good for religion as much as it is good for the government. Conservative Christian politicians might do well to take note of that. Jamie

11-07-2002, 06:59 AM	#5
simian Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: St. Louis, MO area Posts: 1,924	They have experience religion being in complete control of their lives (in a historical sense). Damn you Australia, you got the decent people (the criminals) we got the insane (the wacko religious)!!! Simian

11-07-2002, 07:00 AM	#6
seanie Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Edinburgh. Scotland Posts: 2,532	Ooooh. Difficult question. I think one reason may be because we spent hundreds of years knocking the seven bells out of one another. For various reasons; religion, imperial ambition, resources, glory etc. But for every occassion we successfully beat the crap out of someone else, someone beat the crap out of us. After a few hundred years of that you realise that whether or not God exists he's certainly not on your side. Once you realise that religion and god become less central to national identity. It becomes more personal, more discreet, less important. Tony Blair is religious. That doesn't really matter either way to most people. But if he gave a speech about how the UK was a nation blessed by God, dependent upon him for our economic, mental, physical, moral and spiritual well-being, we'd cart him off to the funny farm.

11-07-2002, 07:07 AM	#8
Seeker196 Regular Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Canada Posts: 278	Read the history of the 30 years war leading up to the Religious Peace of Augsburg. Imagine a war so long, so terrible, so mind blastingly stupid that even hardcore Calvinists sat down with direst, Inquistion, pre-Council of Trent Catholics in order to make peace.

11-07-2002, 07:17 AM	#9
ImGod Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Nebraska Posts: 6,264	Religion fits into the entertainment economy over here very well. If they continue their effective marketing and political lobbying, it won’t be long and multi-billion dollar religion industry will be bigger than the porn industry. Well maybe not.

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