Bree

LadyShea, that was one of the neatest posts I've ever read.

Panta Pei

I consider you all great friends for giving such honest insight and I really appreciate it.

It's becoming too difficult for me to express some of the issues while involved in the realtime dynamic of personal turmoil.

I can recognize that my level of consideration is low at the present moment regarding the theistic mindset. The responses and advice each of you have provided has honestly helped put some of my concerns into perspective.

My apologies to scombrid for hijacking the great thread.

Sometime soon I hope to create a thread topic regarding atheist/theist domestic relations. Right now, its just becoming a little too difficult to discuss.

Well, I'm off to heckle Bender

Thanks, again <img src="graemlins/notworthy.gif" border="0" alt="[Not Worthy]" />

Arrowman

Sure Michael, I do understand that, even though my own life has been relatively free of such things.

But (and maybe I'm being overly pedantic here) I don't mean "threatened" in the sense of "perceiving a threat to one's freedom, physical wellbeing or whatever". This is a feeling which Christians and atheists alike may feel from time to time (although as we all know, the atheist feeling is legitimate and the Christian is not )

I mean "threatened" in the sense of "feeling insecure in one's belief on a given matter, through being confronted by someone who does not share that belief, and who is presenting either a strong argument which you cannot rebut, or [as in Panta's case] an overt showing of disbelief which you cannot counter with logic". Or somesuch.

In other words, I think sometimes atheists say "they're feeling threatened" in a patronising way which passes judgement on the internal thought processes of someone else [and in this case, people they have never met]. It means in effect "you have made a point they cannot refute; they must be feeling insecure" when all the person may be feeling is some form of discomfort or offence at an expression of disrespect for their beliefs.

(Yes, of course if the person in question understood where the atheist was coming from, and were a tad more educated, tolerant and open minded, they might not be so offended or upset - but that's by the by.)

And Christians do it too. A Christian wants to pray at the dinner table, and I say "I'd prefer you didn't" and they say smugly "why - do you feel threatened by hearing The Truth?" Er - no, I feel entirely secure in my non-belief...

In other words, there's a certain smug "gotcha!" in the "you're feeling threatened" sometimes, which I feel is not justified.

Now, I don't know whether that is how people have meant it on this thread, although from context I must say I think it might be - certainly it has happened elsewhere. And I just think it's something we could think about.

Koyaanisqatsi

Panta

BRA F*CKING O! <img src="graemlins/notworthy.gif" border="0" alt="[Not Worthy]" />

It's amazing that they think absolutely nothing about spouting the exact same thing to you and forcing you to endure on a regular basis the exact same feelings!

All you did was give them a taste of their own medicine and the minute you explain to your wife that the shock and rudeness and disrespect that they felt is ten times worse for you considering all of the times you were forced to participate in their ritual, she should come around.

It reminds me of the late great Bill Hicks who had a bit about saying anti-christian jokes on stage and how one time some southern hicks came up to him after the show and said, "Hey Mr. Funnyman! We don't like you making fun of Jesus! We're Christians! "

His response? "Then forgive me."

Classic.

Queen of Swords

Originally posted by Godless Dave:
<strong>
Was the "D" word really divorce? I thought she was just calling you a dick!</strong>



I thought the D-word was "disrespect". I guess I have a lot to learn about marriage.

beachbum

scombrid

I too would like to apologize for having helped hijack your thread. I admire the way you handled those situations. I look forward to the times that I can use my rights as an atheist and a free person to answer some stupid xian slight and not kowtow to their 'spiritual' bullshit.

Stan

atheistdave

At times like that when someone wanted to pray over a meal, I usually make a joke about prayer not required, my wife is good cook. usually everyone will go ahead and start eating.

Now on to deeper things from someone who has "stepped in" it more than a few times,

Panta, you may have learned something the hard way. Have you ever been investigating someone who seemed guilty, only to find out later that they were not and you had been a little tough on them at the time? If so, you now know how they felt. Your wife and family may be unjustly hard on you at the moment and you will have to weather the storm. Hang in there, time heals.

Dave

RufusAtticus

That is something I need to get my fiancee to realize. Yesterday, she told me that her family's opinion of her was worth more to her than I was. Needless to say I got out of the car after that one.

~~RvFvS~~

Viti

This is a difficult thing to accept for many people. Hubby did NOT just say "okey dokey"....we fought it out for years...until his Mom was just so offensive to us both that he didn't speak to her for 6 months...then he realized I was right. I have not pushed my parents away, we have a great relationship and vacation together yearly, speak weekly etc. They simply know that I have chosen my partner and life and that is my priority.

I don't know why this concept is so foreign to some people...but it is.

The Other Michael

That looks like a bad sign to me - it would always be you against the family if you don't fit in. And if she's going to side with them that kind of negates the whole idea of being "a couple".

good luck,
Michael