Bobzammel

In Acts 12, Herod Agrippa-the third member of the Herod dynasty in the bible-is apparentally struck dead(or ill) by an angel of God because the crowd thinks he is a God.

King Herod went down from Judea to Caesarea and stayed there. And he was highly displeased with those from Tyre and Sidon. But they came with one accord to him and, having made Blastus (the king's chamberlain) their friend, they asked for peace, because their country was nourished by the king's country. And upon a set day Herod, arrayed in royal apparel, sat upon his throne and delivered an oration unto them. And the people gave a shout, saying, 'It is the voice of a god, and not of a man!' And immediately the angel of the Lord smote him, because he gave not God the glory; and he was eaten by worms and gave up the ghost.
[Luke, Acts of the apostles 12.19b-23]




Interestingly, there is an actual match with Josephus here. However in this version Agrippa sees a bird, perceives it as an omen, quickly tells the crowd that they are wrong, and then dies.

Now when Agrippa had reigned three years over all Judea, he came to the city Caesarea [...] There he exhibited shows in honor of the emperor [...] On the second day of the festival, Herod put on a garment made wholly of silver, and of a truly wonderful contexture, and came into the theater early in the morning; at which time the silver of his garment was illuminated by the fresh reflection of the sun's rays upon it. It shone out after a surprising manner, and was so resplendent as to spread a horror over those that looked intently upon him. At that moment, his flatterers cried out [...] that he was a god; and they added, 'Be thou merciful to us; for although we have hitherto reverenced thee only as a man, yet shall we henceforth own thee as superior to mortal nature.'
Upon this the king did neither rebuke them, nor reject their impious flattery. But as he presently afterward looked up, he saw an owl sitting on a certain rope over his head, and immediately understood that this bird was the messenger of ill tidings, as it had once been the messenger of good tidings to him; and he fell into the deepest sorrow. A severe pain also arose in his belly, and began in a most violent manner. He therefore looked upon his friends, and said, 'I, whom you call a god, am commanded presently to depart this life; while Providence thus reproves the lying words you just now said to me; and I, who was by you called immortal, am immediately to be hurried away by death. But I am bound to accept of what Providence allots, as it pleases God; for we have by no means lived ill, but in a splendid and happy manner.'
After he said this, his pain was become violent. Accordingly he was carried into the palace, and the rumor went abroad that he would certainly die in a little time. But the multitude presently sat in sackcloth, with their wives and children, after the law of their country, and besought God for the king's recovery. All places were also full of mourning and lamentation. Now the king rested in a high chamber, and as he saw them below lying prostrate on the ground, he could not himself forbear weeping. And when he had been quite worn out by the pain in his belly for five days, he departed this life, being in the fifty-fourth year of his age, and in the seventh year of his reign.
[Flavius Josephus, Jewish Antiquities 19.343-350]

Any thoughts on these two? Does one prove the other? Did one influence the other? Did Josephus just pick up on the legend?(Josephus wasn't 100% accurate in his history)

Geoff Hudson

Do you think Herod could be Claudius?

Geoff

Bobzammel

Nope. We do know that a Herodian dynasty did exist, and had nothing to do with Claudius. As for the way the Herodians are potrayed in the bible, the Baby-killing story is not contained in any secular history of Herod; his son's problems with John The Baptist were probably not for the same reason the bible stated(The bible states it was because John was bugging him regarding a marriage; Josephus states it probably was because Herod feared John leading a rebellion) and as for Agrippa, well, this is what the topic is about.

Geoff Hudson

Apparently, Claudius was poisoned with a treated mushroom, lingered a while, and had to be poisoned a second time before dying on 13 October 54 A.D. His lingering death is similar to that ascribed to Agrippa. I get very suspicious whenever I read Josephus, and the NT, where Roman history is possibly involved.

Geoff

Geoff Hudson

"Agrippa" is said to have had worms. Poison could be an excellent de-wormer. The poison kills the worms that then become apparent. So may be Claudius had worms - probably a common problem in ancient times.

Geoff

Geoff Hudson

According to Josephus in War 2.11, Agrippa 1 was the very active negotiator between Claudius and the Senate in bringing Claudius to power, without war. Claudius rewarded Agrippa by restoring his "whole paternal kingdom immediately".

Geoff

Geoff Hudson

SUETONIUS - CLAUDIUS

XXII. Touching religious ceremonies and civil and military customs, as well as the condition of all classes at home and abroad, he corrected various abuses, revived some old customs or even established new ones. In admitting priests into the various colleges he never named anyone until he had first taken oath [That those whom he had selected were worthy of the honor], and he SCRUPULOUSLY OBSERVED THE CUSTOM of having the praetor call an assembly and proclaim a holiday, whenever there was an earthquake within the city; as well as that of offering up a supplication whenever A BIRD OF ILL-OMEN was seen on the Capitol. This last he himself conducted in his capacity of chief priest, first reciting the form of words to the people from the Rostra, after all mechanics and slaves had been ordered to withdraw.



JOSEPHUS - AGRIPPA I

Ant.19.7.3

Accordingly, he longed to live continually at Jerusalem, and was exactly careful in the observance of the laws of his country. He therefore kept himself entirely pure; nor did any day pass over his head without its appointed sacrifice.

Ant.19.8.2

But as he presently afterwards looked up, he saw an owl sitting on a certain rope over his head, and immediately understood that this bird was the message of ill tidings.
******

I think that Josephus' editor has used events in the life of Claudius for Agrippa I.

I have already shown how events in the lives of Nero and Agrippina were applied to Izates and Helena.

Josephus' editor is in effect covering up Roman history. The editor's of the NT do the same.

Geoff