Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Stephen T-B · 10-17-2002, 02:15 AM

On a BBC radio programme this morning (Melvyn Bragg�s �In Our Time� on Radio 4) one of his guests said that guilt encourages amnesia. Another said that it encourages improvement.
I thought they were interesting propositions and worth exploring..
Any ideas?

Glory · 10-17-2002, 08:58 AM

I disagree with the former assertion and agree with the latter. I think guilt leads to denial rather than amnesia. I also think it can lead to improvement but just as often or maybe more often it leads to destruction or, at least, detructive behaviour. It seems few of us are able to learn from our mistakes the first time round.

Glory

Viti · 10-17-2002, 09:27 AM

I think guilt, fear, and jealousy are the most destructive human emotions.

Guilt is all about YOU...nobody can make you feel guilty you do it to yourself and it can tear you up. It's easy not to feel guilty though...try not to do things you know go against your personal morals or values, and accept the mistakes you make for what they are...mistakes, errors in judgement. Nobody is perfect and wallowing in guilt is not constructive.

Sarpedon · 10-17-2002, 09:35 AM

"it is human nature to hate those one has wronged"

It would seem that guilt often causes people to blame other people, rather than themselves. This is the origin of hate, a destructive emotion that lady shea seems to have missed.

On the other hand, a shameless person can commit any act against another person. it is a double edged sword.

If I were to inadvertantly harm another person (because I never do it deliberately) I think it would be appropriate to feel ashamed and guilty. The secret to proper guilt weilding seems to be that you must never project it outside yourself, and that you must use it constructively to correct your own behavior. To say that guilt is a negative emotion is to assert that one's behavior can brook no improvement, which I disagree with.

Viti · 10-17-2002, 10:08 AM

I think hate is generated by the emotions I listed to be honest. We hate what we fear, envy, or makes us feel bad.

I also think we should feel ashamed when we mistakenly hurt someone...it's the non acceptance of this and not taking corrective action that I think is destructive. I know people who feel guilty about everything and never let it go.

When I was being evaluated for kidney donation, the psychiatrist was asking weird questions so I asked him what they were for....apparently many people do "good deeds" etc in an effort to assuage feelings of guilt or to atone for something. That's not healthy.

Glory · 10-17-2002, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by LadyShea:
I think guilt, fear, and jealousy are the most destructive human emotions.

I agree that these emotions have this potential. I think that they are also an integral part of human experience. We all feel these things to some extent and mjust except that. I still feel guilt over things I did a long time ago. It helps to keep me from doing those things again. I have plenty of fear. I fear for my security and safety. If I didn't, I would be reckless and pose a danger to those around me. I have had feelings of jealousy as well. It helped me to identify how I really feel about Sentinel. I didn't allow those feelings to govern my actions but I accept that I have them.

Quote:

Guilt is all about YOU...nobody can make you feel guilty you do it to yourself and it can tear you up. It's easy not to feel guilty though...try not to do things you know go against your personal morals or values, and accept the mistakes you make for what they are...mistakes, errors in judgement. Nobody is perfect and wallowing in guilt is not constructive.

Wallowing in guilt is not good for anybody. Experience with guilt is unavoidable. One who has no guilt has no experiences or is in deep denial.

Glory

[ October 17, 2002: Message edited by: Glory ]</p>

Keith Russell · 10-17-2002, 12:09 PM

Guilt?

Why?

Keith.

B34RZ0R · 10-17-2002, 12:21 PM

Silly Theist Guilt is for sins...
(I had to do it)
Really though I think we need to let guilt/regret be a turning point and recognize that whatever the action was that led to this feeling is something we don't need to be doing...
Sadly I of course dwelled on things that I used to feel guilty about and ended up embracing a lot of self destructive behavior. Thankfully I have come to realize that if on the front side of a situation I can "see" an outcome that will make me feel guilty I just don't do it.
there is my 2bits
Be Well
*Bear*

Sarpedon · 10-17-2002, 01:23 PM

I would like to point out that religion didn't make up guilt, it was around long before god. The question is, does it have a function, like a kidney, or is it some useless and potentially dangerous remnant, like an appendix?

galiel · 10-17-2002, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sarpedon:
<strong>I would like to point out that religion didn't make up guilt, it was around long before god. </strong>

(emphasis mine)
I'm always curious about absolutist statements like these, whether they come from theists or not.

How do you know, Sarpedon?

[ October 17, 2002: Message edited by: galiel ]</p>

10-17-2002, 02:15 AM	#1
Stephen T-B Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Leeds, UK Posts: 5,878	guilt On a BBC radio programme this morning (Melvyn Bragg�s �In Our Time� on Radio 4) one of his guests said that guilt encourages amnesia. Another said that it encourages improvement. I thought they were interesting propositions and worth exploring.. Any ideas?

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10-17-2002, 08:58 AM	#2
Glory Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: b Posts: 673	I disagree with the former assertion and agree with the latter. I think guilt leads to denial rather than amnesia. I also think it can lead to improvement but just as often or maybe more often it leads to destruction or, at least, detructive behaviour. It seems few of us are able to learn from our mistakes the first time round. Glory

10-17-2002, 09:27 AM	#3
Viti Contributor Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Down South Posts: 12,879	I think guilt, fear, and jealousy are the most destructive human emotions. Guilt is all about YOU...nobody can make you feel guilty you do it to yourself and it can tear you up. It's easy not to feel guilty though...try not to do things you know go against your personal morals or values, and accept the mistakes you make for what they are...mistakes, errors in judgement. Nobody is perfect and wallowing in guilt is not constructive.

10-17-2002, 09:35 AM	#4
Sarpedon Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Minnesota, the least controversial state in the le Posts: 8,446	"it is human nature to hate those one has wronged" It would seem that guilt often causes people to blame other people, rather than themselves. This is the origin of hate, a destructive emotion that lady shea seems to have missed. On the other hand, a shameless person can commit any act against another person. it is a double edged sword. If I were to inadvertantly harm another person (because I never do it deliberately) I think it would be appropriate to feel ashamed and guilty. The secret to proper guilt weilding seems to be that you must never project it outside yourself, and that you must use it constructively to correct your own behavior. To say that guilt is a negative emotion is to assert that one's behavior can brook no improvement, which I disagree with.

10-17-2002, 10:08 AM	#5
Viti Contributor Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Down South Posts: 12,879	I think hate is generated by the emotions I listed to be honest. We hate what we fear, envy, or makes us feel bad. I also think we should feel ashamed when we mistakenly hurt someone...it's the non acceptance of this and not taking corrective action that I think is destructive. I know people who feel guilty about everything and never let it go. When I was being evaluated for kidney donation, the psychiatrist was asking weird questions so I asked him what they were for....apparently many people do "good deeds" etc in an effort to assuage feelings of guilt or to atone for something. That's not healthy.

10-17-2002, 12:09 PM	#7
Keith Russell Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Overland Park, Kansas Posts: 1,336	Guilt? Why? Keith.

10-17-2002, 12:21 PM	#8
B34RZ0R Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Lost in the Ether, Minnesota Posts: 1,436	Silly Theist Guilt is for sins... (I had to do it) Really though I think we need to let guilt/regret be a turning point and recognize that whatever the action was that led to this feeling is something we don't need to be doing... Sadly I of course dwelled on things that I used to feel guilty about and ended up embracing a lot of self destructive behavior. Thankfully I have come to realize that if on the front side of a situation I can "see" an outcome that will make me feel guilty I just don't do it. there is my 2bits Be Well Bear

10-17-2002, 01:23 PM	#9
Sarpedon Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Minnesota, the least controversial state in the le Posts: 8,446	I would like to point out that religion didn't make up guilt, it was around long before god. The question is, does it have a function, like a kidney, or is it some useless and potentially dangerous remnant, like an appendix?

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