Psycho Economist

If it's not the packaging of the message as juxtaposed on Christinaity, what seperates a Satanist from an Objectivist, aside from the (lack of) body piercings?

KJELLMUSIC

"Evil" is the mis-representation and over-simplification of certain human and non-human acts, tendencies, events, etc. (including fictional people & occurances).
In short, "evil" is a stupid, uneducated way to explain things that religious people don't like. (born from the days of complete ignorance)

Douglas J. Bender

It's not good.


In Christ,

Douglas

Douglas J. Bender

To be more specific, evil is the opposite, essentially, of good. And if in the context of moral good and evil, love is defined as "good", then that which is contrary to love is "evil". Now, according to the Bible, "love does no harm to its neighbor"; thus (according to the Bible), evil is that which would willingly do harm to its neighbor unjustly (that is, harm that is not a result of some kind of just punishment).

So, for example, if KJELLMUSIC had a beloved 4-year old daughter, and KJELLMUSIC and daughter were African-Americans, and some KKK fanatic decided to kidnap KJELLMUSIC's daughter and sexually abuse her and then torture her to death in order to demonstrate the (supposed) superiority of the Aryan race and in order to get back at KJELLMUSIC for his or her posts here at Infidels, then that would be evil. Or if it was some rich, sadistic pedophile who did this, that would be evil. Of course, it would appear that in the face of such an event, KJELLMUSIC would not call the perpetrator "evil" - just "stupid", or maybe something else, but certainly not "evil". No, and KJELLMUSIC would not describe tyrants who abuse and kill innocent citizens for their own amusement and hold on power as "evil" - just "confused", or "improperly motivated", perhaps. What a wonderful and enlightened world this would be if everyone had KJELLMUSIC's insight into human behavior.


In Christ,

Douglas

Jack

"Evil" is a psychological reversion to ignorant barbarism.

Jack

MadMordigan

Bender:

The interesting aspect about the phenomenon of 'evil' is that your hypothetical KKKer would not consider those same actions as evil. The labelling of an event as evil or good is done at a subjective level.

KJELLMUSIC

And wouldn't that much better describe what they did instead of just labeling it with an all-encompasing name like "evil", Douglas? If killing is evil and dancing is evil then how do can you make a reasonable distinction between the things that people do? A theocracy that only cared about evil might just want to kill both the murderer and the dancer because they both committed "evil" acts but here in the land where we use our brains we prefer not to be so simple and inaccurate (and injust).
Investigators go to a murder scene and very carefully reconstruct what happened because that way they LEARN MORE ABOUT WHAT REALLY HAPPENED...instead of doing what they used to do in the old days which was show up a the scene and declare that the dead body was probably murdered and they haul it away. It was obivously an evil act that did this. Maybe it was a curable chemical imbalance in the brain that did it and knowing this can help it from happening to others.
There is a case near where I live in the news yesterday where a guy attacked an elderly man for no apparent reason and put him in the hospital. Well, come to find out that he had some latent mental problems that no one suspected could get out of hand like this. Earlier that day he was in the hospital looking for immediate help and was sent away. The police ran into him 3 times before the attack because of reports of a raving lunatic and didn't do anything. Was it evil that did this or was it a mental condition that was treatable? Would calling it evil make this never happen again and would some religious incantation solve the problem?
Or would understanding what really happened help in this particular situation and also in future such situations?
Guess what I would pick.

KJELLMUSIC

Listen Douglas, "evil" is a religious term just like Jehova, Ra, Allah, Baal, Jesus, Vishnu, Thor, Zeus, etc. are. We don't believe in gods and don't practice religion so none of these terms are relevant to us except as references to past or present religious beliefs that others have. They simply are not real and no representative of these religions can show us that they are.

If a racist murderer kills someone (whether or not it's my fictious daughter or someone else) then I know that he killed that person because he was brainwashed by his community or group to regard people different that himself as less than human and open to rape, murder, etc. I may hate the guy and want to kill him and he may be a true piece-of-shit asshole and deserve whatever is coming to him (and I will recognize him as this), but I can GET why he did this (what led him to this) and then can seek to stop more occurances like this by trying to stop individuals who lead groups like this or educate communities that have a old uneducated tendency toward these views. That was what the whole racial movement of the 60's was about!
You seem to be under the false impression that by not calling this crime by a religious term, I would in some way be condoning said violence (not dancing, we have to make the distinction so no one is confused since both are considered by some to be "EVIL") as something that is not really all that bad.
If your are going to throw around religious terms then please know that they are that. This is an Atheist board afterall and you might engage in smoother flowing discussions by keeping that in mind.

Here is another fun example:
You get your car repainted and when you pick it up you say "I don't like it".
The painter says "why?".
You say "I just don't like it".
The painter says but I need to know the reasons why you don't like it so that we can come to an understanding about your problem with it and either adjust the price or redo it to your satisfaction.
You say "I don't like it".
The painter says "but that doesn't help me any".
You say "but I just don't like it".

Do you see where this is going Douglas? When you say "I don't like it", it's like saying "it's evil". That tells me nothing except that it's something that you don't like.
It's about applying reason. I know that you use reason in your everyday life (getting gas, paying bills, shopping, reading maps, etc.) but when it comes to religion you seem to feel that reason is not needed.
If someone says " that band is the best band in the world", I say "why do you say that" and they usually say "I don't know, I just like them". That explains nothing about the big statement they just made and I can assume that they don't have much of an informed opinion on the matter. It's probably one of the few bands that the radio wanted to promote.

Examples are supposed to help but I can imagine that you are unwavering in your training about your religion and probably don't care how many neat little examples I give. Am I correct?

Opera Nut

I've seen evil people in court. Planned Parenthood versus Operation Rescue, Flip Benham, Randall Terry, Don Treshman, etc.

The defendants -- the bomb throwing doctor killing defendants. The jury and I were shocked. I felt totally traumatized by having to sit in court and listen to the trial. I saw those guys. They are scary, very scary.

One excerpt:
Q: What does your organization think of the murder of Dr. David Gunn in Florida?
A (Don Treshman) Our organization neither condemns it, nor do we condone it.

[Huge incredulous gasp from the jury.]

Oxymoron

"Evil" people? Or people who did "evil" things? Can a person be fundamentally "evil"?

For most cultures, Evil = things we don't like. For example, Nazi Germany's invasions and exterminations were deemed evil (hell, I ain't gonna fight that one). But the allied carpet bombing of Dresden is rarely called evil though I imagine many Germans thought it so.

Evil is cultural, subjective, fickle, and an adjective used to grossly label complex phenomena so folk can get a handle on them.