my dog earl

I am in a quandry....None of the contradictions, absurdities, cruelties, etc. even make this christian friend of mine flinch. His pat answer is, "it all comes down to believing in Jesus, it all comes down to whats in your heart". He says I am focusing on the wrong things, that ultimately, we all have choices to make and there is only one right choice to make. To make matters worse, he tells me that because I am questioning Christianity, God must be working in me to bring me to the truth. I have almost given up...........anybody have any good come-back lines to battle the hard of head?

Demigawd

Use the classic "which god" question as a lead into the various world religions discussion. Read up, if you've haven't already, on Islam, Buddhism, ancient pagan mythology. Heck, even conflicting Christian denominations will do in a pinch.

Even if it seems you've failed, you've hopefully planted the seed of skepticism. And with a little intellectual watering, that seed may yet grow.

Infidelettante

Ya know, I gotsa dawg name Eral. Eral is a good dawg as dawgs is. Makes a good bit a noise a barkin alot nights an all but hes a dawg an thats what dawgs do its they nature ta bark. Now theys times when even a good dawg tries a mans patience an I jest git fed up wit that barking. So I gets me a ax handle an I proseed ta beat the livin hell outa that dam dawg. I jes hit him till I'm worn ta a frazzle an I caint hit him no more. He crawls up under ta porch an he's real quiet fer awhile. I crawl up in there ta see ifin he's alive an talk to him real sweetlike an tell him Im jest so sorry about that last beatin an tit wont ever happen again. It takes some doin but soons you know it he's out and playin like he aint got a care in the world. I jest hope next time I dont kill him cause that 'ad be a shame cause Ol Eral he's a good dawg as dawgs is.

Now, you are Eral and God is Erals owner. If you cain't make up your mind then just crawl up under the porch Eral and be real quiet like.:banghead:

JT

Demigawd

*points to JTVrocher*

Waitress, I'll have whatever he's drinking/smoking/snorting/injecting/etc.

Straight Hate

Sounds like your friend is one of the most annoying kinds of Christians that exist - slippery as Hell, and will use every kind of subjective concept-switch known to man. Jesus respects that (or so he must because so many Christians use said tactics).

Me, I usually respond with flat-out disrespect ("Praise Allah" or "So, have you accepted Satan into your heart yet?"), or a statement of why atheism is so much more preferable - I can focus on what is tangible, happiness/morality/integrity without an invisible friend, how much better I feel searching for truth than to have it dictated to me by a prejudiced old man, all the great things science, freethought and inquiry has given us, etc. A good retelling of Carl Sagan's dragon story is also great for hitting home your point.

Magus55

How about stop trying to deconvert him to atheism? That seems to be a big issue atheists have on this board, that we Christians don't accept you - and try to force our reasoning on you. Heed your own advice. If he is content being Christian and believing in Jesus, why take that away from him?

And of course the irony of the hard of head statement. Alot of Christians feel that way about Atheists.

nermal

At some point, you have to face the fact that you can't arguewith some people, and you stop doing it.
Don't keep doing the same thing expecting different results.

Ed

Bree

I'm going to take a gamble and move this thread to SL&S - I think you'll find more of the answers you're looking for over there.

BioBeing

If you go this route - heres a great page that lists several of the possible choices... http://elephanticity.5u.com/wager.html

captainpabst

Tell him that the human heart pumps blood. Jesus is not in there.

Tell him you can no more prove there is a god in heaven (where is heaven?) than that there is an invisible pink unicorn under your bed. Tell him he's just kissing Hank's ass , and he'd be better off sweet talking the IPU into sharing some ham and pineapple pizza.

Use words like delusion, imaginary, pretend; use terms like 'santa clause for adults' (he's makin' a list, checking it twice - gonna find out who's naughty and nice!) and security blanket.

If he's game for reading a few things, try some Joseph Campbell, Rev. John Spong, or Jiddu Krishnamurti. Maybe some Dan Barker.

He's gonna have to stop 'feeling' the answers to questions and try to think rationally. It'll be a hard thing to do.