Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Roland98 · 06-19-2003, 06:11 PM

Hi all--

Was having a (rather heated) discussion with a super-fundie on another site about HIV being God's curse for homosexuals. It eventually disintigrated into conspiracy theories (WHO changed the stats on infected homosexuals, all the cases in Africa are really due to bisexuals, etc.) So this became more and more surreal--and then he brought out the big guns: in the beginning of the epidemic, scientists held the hypothesis that HIV had entered the human population when someone had sex with a monkey.

Of course, he had no references for this (or any) of his assertations--but at least I'd heard most of them before. This one threw me for a loop--and he blamed the fact that I hadn't heard it on my "being young" (and admittedly, the AIDS epidemic started in the U.S. when I was about 5, but I didn't want to admit that to him...)

So my question is, is he right? I highly, highly, highly doubt that scientists ever believed that--but was that a belief held by fundies or something? Do they really think Africans are out having sex with monkeys?

RufusAtticus · 06-19-2003, 07:04 PM

You should remind the super-fundie that my people in africa are known to eat monkies and other primates but not known to have sex with them. Therefore, the former is the likely transmission pathway.

Of course, if AIDS is a curse for homosexuality why did Ryan White get it?

Roland98 · 06-19-2003, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RufusAtticus
You should remind the super-fundie that my people in africa are known to eat monkies and other primates but not known to have sex with them. Therefore, the former is the likely transmission pathway.

Actually, that was what I'd mentioned--and his reply was along the lines of, "No, the scientists had said they had sex with the monkeys." !!!?? And when I responded with essentially, "You're out of your fucking mind," (of course, not with that language), that was when he responded with the age comment.

Quote:

Of course, if AIDS is a curse for homosexuality why did Ryan White get it?

Which was the point of the thread--how AIDS is clearly NOT a curse from God (otherwise, God sure seems to like lesbians a lot). The rationale for Ryan White et al. was kind of a "sins of the fathers" idea--the curse "bled over" onto the innocent victims (including AIDS babies, transfusion recipients, EMTs, nurses, etc.)

Can you believe that people really still think like this??!!?

Gnomelord · 06-19-2003, 07:55 PM

I would suggest tormenting ones self to lesson the curse of the plague upon mankind. Greaten our suffering to lessen the duration and shoulder the burden for others!

Oh, and the black death approaches! repent! REPENT!

Godot · 06-19-2003, 11:15 PM

There was a something about this from yesterday's Canberra Times:

Quote:

JUNGLE PATH: European and US researchers tracking the origins of the AIDS virus say they have traced it to monkeys in Africa later eaten by chimpanzees who were then butchered by humans for meat.

Four years ago, the same researchers argued humans probably got the AIDS virus from chimpanzees carrying the simian immunodeficiency virus, or SIV, the precursor to HIV.

Chimps do not get sick from HIV and understanding why this happens could help in duplicating resistance in humans to AIDS symptoms.

Chimpanzees were found to be infected by a hybrid virus that came from the red-capped mangabey and the greater spot-nosed monkeys.

Citing from a related study by the researchers due to appear in the Journal of Virology next month, Sharp said they had also found the SIV virus was less common in wild chimpanzees than in monkeys. Monkeys may have been infected with SIVs for hundreds of years, but research indicates chimpanzees acquired SIV much more recently.

Wounded King · 06-20-2003, 01:24 AM

How does he know the guy who had sex with the monkey wasn't a southern baptist?

Roland98 · 06-20-2003, 05:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Godot
There was a something about this from yesterday's Canberra Times:

D'oh! The thread got locked--I wonder if I start another one with this info, if they'll just delete it? Either way I can PM it--allthough I'm sure it will be written off as more "politically correct hogwash from liberal scientists."

Thanks for the info!

Roland98 · 06-20-2003, 05:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Wounded King
How does he know the guy who had sex with the monkey wasn't a southern baptist?

Why didn't I think of that?????

Arken · 06-20-2003, 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Wounded King
How does he know the guy who had sex with the monkey wasn't a southern baptist?

If it was, they would have had to use the missionary position

Mecha_Dude · 06-20-2003, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Wounded King
How does he know the guy who had sex with the monkey wasn't a southern baptist?

They'd just bust out the good ole No-True -Scotsman fallacy

"oh then he wasn't a True Christian(TM)"

06-19-2003, 06:11 PM	#1
Roland98 Contributor Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Gilead Posts: 11,186	Origin of AIDS Hi all-- Was having a (rather heated) discussion with a super-fundie on another site about HIV being God's curse for homosexuals. It eventually disintigrated into conspiracy theories (WHO changed the stats on infected homosexuals, all the cases in Africa are really due to bisexuals, etc.) So this became more and more surreal--and then he brought out the big guns: in the beginning of the epidemic, scientists held the hypothesis that HIV had entered the human population when someone had sex with a monkey. Of course, he had no references for this (or any) of his assertations--but at least I'd heard most of them before. This one threw me for a loop--and he blamed the fact that I hadn't heard it on my "being young" (and admittedly, the AIDS epidemic started in the U.S. when I was about 5, but I didn't want to admit that to him...) So my question is, is he right? I highly, highly, highly doubt that scientists ever believed that--but was that a belief held by fundies or something? Do they really think Africans are out having sex with monkeys?

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06-19-2003, 07:04 PM	#2
RufusAtticus Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: NCSU Posts: 5,853	You should remind the super-fundie that my people in africa are known to eat monkies and other primates but not known to have sex with them. Therefore, the former is the likely transmission pathway. Of course, if AIDS is a curse for homosexuality why did Ryan White get it?

06-19-2003, 07:55 PM	#4
Gnomelord Regular Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 127	I would suggest tormenting ones self to lesson the curse of the plague upon mankind. Greaten our suffering to lessen the duration and shoulder the burden for others! Oh, and the black death approaches! repent! REPENT!

06-20-2003, 01:24 AM	#6
Wounded King Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 1,211	How does he know the guy who had sex with the monkey wasn't a southern baptist?

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