Freethought & Rationalism Archive

irishajo · 03-25-2002, 07:18 AM

I came across this website:

<a href="http://www.ocii.com/~dpwozney/dinosaur.htm" target="_blank">Dinosaurs: Science or Science Fiction</a>

I apologize if it's been brought up before. But I'd be interested in any rebuttals of the 'dinosaur myth'.

Pandora · 03-25-2002, 07:57 AM

Okay, here's a personal rebuttal. Your link says that discoverers are normally university professors with an agenda.

Well, I've been collecting fossils since I was eight years old.

My biggest discovery was when, with a friend of my father's, we found part of an Iguanadon on the East Sussex coast. I spent an entire week getting up at 3am to sit on a beach in the freezing cold waiting for the tide to go out enough to uncover it - last I heard it has disappeared into the depths of the Nat. History Museum. Since I was fourteen at the time I can assure you that I had no hidden agenda and nothing to gain and that chicken bones had no part in my escapades.

The last fossils I found were extremely primative ammonites that I collected here in Italy. The place I found them was both highly dangerous and inaccessible. I had to literally cut them out of a collapsing cliff.

Anyone who believes that some sneaky individual goes around with a few tons of fake stone ammonites in his pockets in order to confuse us all (and also manages to plant them in the right orders in the rock layers - go a few hundred metres up and they're strangely more advanced!) is invited to come along on my next trip.

Late_Cretaceous · 03-25-2002, 01:17 PM

According to the article "Why were there no discoveries by native Americans in all the years previous when they roamed the North American continent? There is no belief of dinosaurs in the native American religion or tradition."

Actually he is quite wrong. The Blackfoot people were aware of dinosaur fossils, and even used them in rituals.

Answerer · 03-25-2002, 05:08 PM

There is something I don't understand, why is people so keen on disproving dinosaurs, they got nothing better to do is it?

<img src="graemlins/boohoo.gif" border="0" alt="[Boo Hoo]" /> <img src="graemlins/boohoo.gif" border="0" alt="[Boo Hoo]" />

emphryio · 03-25-2002, 05:20 PM

Dinosaurs disprove christianity therefore dinosaurs must be disproved.

Now on the other hand, plate tectonics, for instance, are OK I guess because they don't so blantantly contradict the bible. (They could be considered not important).

It would be an interesting tactic. To counter some creationist, with equally absurd thinking concerning some science that doesn't blatantly contradict the bible. Some science that the creationist has accepted as valid. (I wonder if they would then see how silly they look.)

Arrowman · 03-25-2002, 05:32 PM

Hmm... now that's a new one to me - first time I've heard of anyone claiming that dinosaurs are a complete fabrication!

It's so weird that I wonder if anyone has ever constructed a targeted rebuttal. I would have thought the first thing would be to show the complete or near complete skulls that have been found - not vertebra, not ribs, not anything that could be misinterpreted or needs major interpolation or reconstruction - but skulls which are indisputably "not of this earth" as it were.

But even that wouldn't work for someone who is prepared to believe the conspiracy theories. - Click back to this guy's index page. He has two other pet subjects: supposed anomalies in the Apollo moon landings, and leaving messages for those left behind after the "Rapture".

From the latter:

"A cheaper and quicker way [than a video] for today's Christians to communicate to those left behind on earth after the rapture is to simply post a message in an obvious spot, such as on a refrigerator or freezer door, where it will be seen. This is the message which I have posted on my refrigerator door:

'I am writing this to you in the past. In your present time, the church (believers in Yeshua HaMashiach) has been raptured, and has been taken out of this world to be with Yeshua. You have been left behind. To gain eternal life and salvation, and to be with Yeshua, you must accept Yeshua as your saviour from sin and refuse to take the mark of the beast on your hand or forehead and refuse to worship the beast and his image or statue, even if it means you have to die.'"

(And PS: Don't forget to buy milk, and put out the cat....)

I'm just trying to picture the most appropriate fridge magnet for holding up that cheery little message!

Coragyps · 03-25-2002, 05:34 PM

Quote:

It would be an interesting tactic. To counter some creationist, with equally absurd thinking concerning some science that doesn't blatantly contradict the bible. Some science that the creationist has accepted as valid. (I wonder if they would then see how silly they look.)

My experience as a "ringer" on the ICR board would indicate that you couldn't get that ridiculous. I put out some stuff that was way past absurd, to my mind, and just got congratulated for the good work. <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

echidna · 03-25-2002, 11:25 PM

I think you'll find that David Wozney operates his website from a different universe from the rest of us.

He wouldn't like this one very much, which is why I guess he hasn't visited yet.

Radcliffe Emerson · 03-26-2002, 06:44 AM

I've been to some of the dinosaur digs out in Utah and other places. The fossils and skeletons pretty much close that matter, as far as I'm concerned.

Shadow Wraith · 03-26-2002, 10:09 AM

Forget dinosaurs. I think we have actually confirmed a black hole in this Wozney guy's head.

03-25-2002, 07:18 AM	#1
irishajo Regular Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Midwest Posts: 186	Dinosaurs Science Fiction? I came across this website: <a href="http://www.ocii.com/~dpwozney/dinosaur.htm" target="_blank">Dinosaurs: Science or Science Fiction</a> I apologize if it's been brought up before. But I'd be interested in any rebuttals of the 'dinosaur myth'.

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03-25-2002, 07:57 AM	#2
Pandora Regular Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: UK Posts: 367	Okay, here's a personal rebuttal. Your link says that discoverers are normally university professors with an agenda. Well, I've been collecting fossils since I was eight years old. My biggest discovery was when, with a friend of my father's, we found part of an Iguanadon on the East Sussex coast. I spent an entire week getting up at 3am to sit on a beach in the freezing cold waiting for the tide to go out enough to uncover it - last I heard it has disappeared into the depths of the Nat. History Museum. Since I was fourteen at the time I can assure you that I had no hidden agenda and nothing to gain and that chicken bones had no part in my escapades. The last fossils I found were extremely primative ammonites that I collected here in Italy. The place I found them was both highly dangerous and inaccessible. I had to literally cut them out of a collapsing cliff. Anyone who believes that some sneaky individual goes around with a few tons of fake stone ammonites in his pockets in order to confuse us all (and also manages to plant them in the right orders in the rock layers - go a few hundred metres up and they're strangely more advanced!) is invited to come along on my next trip.

03-25-2002, 01:17 PM	#3
Late_Cretaceous Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Alberta Posts: 1,049	According to the article "Why were there no discoveries by native Americans in all the years previous when they roamed the North American continent? There is no belief of dinosaurs in the native American religion or tradition." Actually he is quite wrong. The Blackfoot people were aware of dinosaur fossils, and even used them in rituals.

03-25-2002, 05:08 PM	#4
Answerer Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Singapore Posts: 3,956	There is something I don't understand, why is people so keen on disproving dinosaurs, they got nothing better to do is it? <img src="graemlins/boohoo.gif" border="0" alt="[Boo Hoo]" /> <img src="graemlins/boohoo.gif" border="0" alt="[Boo Hoo]" />

03-25-2002, 05:20 PM	#5
emphryio Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: WV Posts: 4,369	Dinosaurs disprove christianity therefore dinosaurs must be disproved. Now on the other hand, plate tectonics, for instance, are OK I guess because they don't so blantantly contradict the bible. (They could be considered not important). It would be an interesting tactic. To counter some creationist, with equally absurd thinking concerning some science that doesn't blatantly contradict the bible. Some science that the creationist has accepted as valid. (I wonder if they would then see how silly they look.)

03-25-2002, 05:32 PM	#6
Arrowman Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Adelaide, South Australia Posts: 1,358	Hmm... now that's a new one to me - first time I've heard of anyone claiming that dinosaurs are a complete fabrication! It's so weird that I wonder if anyone has ever constructed a targeted rebuttal. I would have thought the first thing would be to show the complete or near complete skulls that have been found - not vertebra, not ribs, not anything that could be misinterpreted or needs major interpolation or reconstruction - but skulls which are indisputably "not of this earth" as it were. But even that wouldn't work for someone who is prepared to believe the conspiracy theories. - Click back to this guy's index page. He has two other pet subjects: supposed anomalies in the Apollo moon landings, and leaving messages for those left behind after the "Rapture". From the latter: "A cheaper and quicker way [than a video] for today's Christians to communicate to those left behind on earth after the rapture is to simply post a message in an obvious spot, such as on a refrigerator or freezer door, where it will be seen. This is the message which I have posted on my refrigerator door: 'I am writing this to you in the past. In your present time, the church (believers in Yeshua HaMashiach) has been raptured, and has been taken out of this world to be with Yeshua. You have been left behind. To gain eternal life and salvation, and to be with Yeshua, you must accept Yeshua as your saviour from sin and refuse to take the mark of the beast on your hand or forehead and refuse to worship the beast and his image or statue, even if it means you have to die.'" (And PS: Don't forget to buy milk, and put out the cat....) I'm just trying to picture the most appropriate fridge magnet for holding up that cheery little message!

03-25-2002, 11:25 PM	#8
echidna Veteran Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 2,832	I think you'll find that David Wozney operates his website from a different universe from the rest of us. He wouldn't like this one very much, which is why I guess he hasn't visited yet.

03-26-2002, 06:44 AM	#9
Radcliffe Emerson Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: the dark side of Mars Posts: 1,309	I've been to some of the dinosaur digs out in Utah and other places. The fossils and skeletons pretty much close that matter, as far as I'm concerned.

03-26-2002, 10:09 AM	#10
Shadow Wraith Regular Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: North Augusta, SC; Aiken-Augusta metro area Posts: 283	Forget dinosaurs. I think we have actually confirmed a black hole in this Wozney guy's head.

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