Freethought & Rationalism Archive

HelenM · 06-13-2002, 06:39 AM

I wish you the best, Dark Jedi

I said "unlikely" so as not to generalize. I didn't say "impossible"

. I daresay the statistics would still bear me out, tomorrow after 2:30

But I hope it goes well and doesn't cause you too much discomfort.

love
Helen

Dark Jedi · 06-13-2002, 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Veil of Fire:

"I've been told that condoms make my penis taste bad."

They do. They really, really do. Uggggggh.

Oral sex, THEN sex, when condoms are involved. I refuse to do it any other way.

Even the flavored ones? My SO is particularly fond of the strawberry-chocolate ones.

brighid · 06-13-2002, 06:51 AM

Are you trying to say that information given to teens is wrong because it�s given to teens? And I suppose those excerpts and links provided from universities are equally spurious. Do you have anything to support your allegations that these people are quacks, or are ad hominem attacks apart of your logical reasoning process?

Sorry, it seems I missed your age as mentioned in previous posts?

We all have different interpretations of foreplay � really all of it is sex and I guess you have never teased your girlfriend during foreplay with your penis at all?

Here is what I have found about the Cowper�s Gland: Finally, the Cowper's glands, also known as bulbourethral glands, are small structures near the base of the penis; their function is to secrete mucus that lubricates and readies the urethra prior to ejaculation. Most guys know this secretion as "pre-cum." Some people secrete much more of it than others; in fact, many men don't even notice it at all.

During sexual stimulation, all of these organs kick into high gear to prepare for an ejaculation. The testicles get slightly larger as they become congested with blood, and the seminal vesicles, prostate, and Cowper's glands begin to secrete their respective fluids. A small amount of sperm may enter the ejaculatory duct and mix with the Cowper's secretions, which is why it is not safe during sexual intercourse to assume pre-ejaculation fluids do not contain sperm.

The campus life post was from the University of Toronto�s sexual education center. Do you have a problem this source that says the same things as those other sources you deem �dubious?�

Is Planned Parenthood a reliable source, even though some of their information is directed at teens? Pregnancy cannot happen if sperm is kept out of the vagina.
HOW WELL WITHDRAWAL WORKS
Of every 100 women whose partners use withdrawal, 19 will become pregnant during the first year of typical use. Of every 100 women whose partners use withdrawal, four will become pregnant during the first year of perfect use.
Pre-ejaculate can contain enough sperm to cause pregnancy. Pregnancy is also possible if semen or pre-ejaculate is spilled on the vulva.
Withdrawal offers no protection against sexually transmitted infections. Latex or female condoms can reduce the risk of infection
<a href="http://www.plannedparenthood.org/bc/bcfacts12.html" target="_blank">http://www.plannedparenthood.org/bc/bcfacts12.html</a>

From Women�s Health: <a href="http://womenshealth.about.com/library/weekly/aa052599.htm" target="_blank">http://womenshealth.about.com/library/weekly/aa052599.htm</a>
Withdrawal
The effectiveness of withdrawal depends upon the man's ability to withdraw his penis from the vagina before he ejaculates. This method does not guarantee that pre-ejaculatory sperm has not been released into the vagina and does not provide protection against AIDS, sexually transmitted diseases, or infections.

Don't Be Fooled
Maybe you have heard that you cannot get pregnant on your period, or if you don't have an orgasm, or if your partner pulls out before ejaculation that pregnancy won't occur--these are not true! Perhaps someone has told you that douching will wash away the sperm before pregnancy can occur. Not only does douching not work to prevent pregnancy, it can also lead to pelvic inflammatory disease and increase your risk of other STDs and infections.

And the information on your 1st site is pretty darn close to what I posted from the University of Toronto�s Sexual Education Department, Your point is? Nor does any of the information you posted actually discredit the factualness of the information I posted either by the �teen� sites, or the University one.
How many sperm does it take to get a woman pregnant?
I probably should have spent a few more minutes finding more sites, but I think my last post sufficiently covers that withdrawal is not fool-proof and women can and do get pregnant from it. Shit, my sister has been pregnant 8 times in 12 years by her husband using the �withdrawal� method of birth control. She is now having baby #5 and had 3 miscarriages. None of her babies were �planned� and the 1st came before they were engaged. And so if you aren�t actually trying to have a baby, as so many couples do and you just happen to get pregnant how exactly is it not �unplanned?�
So, go ahead and do whatever you want to do. But I would hate for any teens or others out there to read your story and think that it�s safe to have unprotected sex.

B

Edited to add: 5 Reasons why contraception fails -
<a href="http://womenshealth.about.com/library/weekly/aa052201a.htm" target="_blank">http://womenshealth.about.com/library/weekly/aa052201a.htm</a>

[ June 13, 2002: Message edited by: brighid ]

Dark Jedi · 06-13-2002, 06:58 AM

After reading through this thread and Intensity's obstinate adherance to withdrawal, I have one question:

Have you and her picked out any names yet?

brighid · 06-13-2002, 07:00 AM

Helen,

I haven't had a chance to look through all of the information but here is a link about the cancer risks, etc. of the Birth Control Pill:
<a href="http://womenshealth.about.com/library/bloccarsk.htm" target="_blank">http://womenshealth.about.com/library/bloccarsk.htm</a>

Brighid

Baloo · 06-13-2002, 07:23 AM

IntenSity,

When I say "use both of them", I kind of meant with a little more redundancy. That means during her peak feritility time, do not have sex. During her off-peak times, use withdrawal.

Also, a little more to consider. The statistics that Brighid cited indicate there is 5:1 chance that coitus interruptus will work, given a year of use (I assume you qualify as a "typical" user). The odds of going two full years without fail are about 2:1 (in other words, for every 3 couples that use the method for two years, only 1 will get pregnant). Basically, the fact that you haven't knowcked her up yet IN NO WAY indicates that you two are *special* - hell, you aren't even beating the odds.

On a hundred dollar bet, a man points a revolver with five barrels and one bullet to his head, spins the barrels, pulls the trigger, again spins the barrels, and again pulls the trigger. The gun does not fire either time; both times he takes his $100. Answer me honestly: based on his experience, do you think he would be wise to go for a third $100, given that he didn't get shot the first two times, or quit while he's ahead?

HelenM · 06-13-2002, 08:43 AM

Let's be clear that the odds of getting pregnant are not necessarily decreased by managing not to on other occasions. Successfully avoiding pregnancy in the past might indicate low fertility or a great deal of adeptness in contraceptive methods or efficacy of methods. Or, it might not.

[ June 13, 2002: Message edited by: HelenSL ]

Ted Hoffman · 06-13-2002, 10:00 AM

Brighid

The effectiveness of withdrawal depends upon the man's ability to withdraw his penis from the vagina before he ejaculates

So if I am adept at withdrawing in time, should I act like everyone else? Maybe I have a talent.
Have you considered that? Some men are wired very accurately and every contraction can be sensed and reacted upon.
Or maybe I am just sterile and I dont know.
Or maybe she tops it up with pills secretly.
Maybe you are just angry at your sister and her hubby.
Your point is valid though: it is less safer. But it is also more pleasurable.

Everything has a price.

Dark Jedi

After reading through this thread and Intensity's obstinate adherance to withdrawal, I have one question:
Have you and her picked out any names yet?
If its a boy, it will be Michael. If its a girl, it will be Angela (for Angela Hanson - Scigirl

) or Helen.

Baloo

On a hundred dollar bet, a man points a revolver with five barrels and one bullet to his head, spins the barrels, pulls the trigger, again spins the barrels, and again pulls the trigger. The gun does not fire either time; both times he takes his $100. Answer me honestly: based on his experience, do you think he would be wise to go for a third $100, given that he didn't get shot the first two times, or quit while he's ahead?
Wrong analogy but what the heck...

***considers***
***considers***
***considers***
***considers***
***chews his nails***
****scratches his head****
***twirls his fingers***
***contemplates the roof***

Naah, the analogy is too wack. I could have sex 10000 times with coitus I and not have a baby. The chances are slim, but its possible. With your roulette chap, he should not even try once. His game is life-destroying while mine is life-creating (immortality).
His depends on numbers (1/5). Mine depends on good timing during withdrawal. Besides, mine is combined with rhythm.

And 100 dollars is not worth risking your life for.
Mind-blowing sex can give you a beautiful baby, more love, intimacy and infinite ecstacy. Sex is one of the purest forms of energy. One of the most beautiful natural processes. Some people reach nirvana through sex.
Can you really compare that with 100 dollars?

But okay, he should quit while he is ahead. I think thats what I would do.

[ June 13, 2002: Message edited by: IntenSity ]

brighid · 06-13-2002, 10:36 AM

Intensity,

Intensity,

Maybe you are just that good and that in tune with your body, or maybe you are shooting blanks! I have a friend who consistently drives drunk � oh for about 7 years now and she hasn�t killed herself or anybody else � yet. Eventually, she will. She�s been lucky, or maybe she�s just that good of a drunk driver.

B

Baloo · 06-13-2002, 10:39 AM

IntenSity,

I have effectively rolled a dice 2 times in a row, without getting a six. Does this indicate I have a flair for "not rolling sixes", and will probably never get a six? If the chances of getting a six on any given roll is 1 in 6, is my past experience evidence that I have less than a 1 in 6 chance of getting a six on my third roll?

You have effectively used CI two years in a row, without getting a baby. Does this indicate you have a flair for CI, and will probably never get a baby (using CI)? If the chances of getting a baby for any given year of CI is 1 in 5, is your past experience evidence that you have less than a 1 in 5 chance of getting a baby on your third year?

06-13-2002, 06:51 AM	#113
brighid Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: somewhere in the known Universe Posts: 6,993	Are you trying to say that information given to teens is wrong because it�s given to teens? And I suppose those excerpts and links provided from universities are equally spurious. Do you have anything to support your allegations that these people are quacks, or are ad hominem attacks apart of your logical reasoning process? Sorry, it seems I missed your age as mentioned in previous posts? We all have different interpretations of foreplay � really all of it is sex and I guess you have never teased your girlfriend during foreplay with your penis at all? Here is what I have found about the Cowper�s Gland: Finally, the Cowper's glands, also known as bulbourethral glands, are small structures near the base of the penis; their function is to secrete mucus that lubricates and readies the urethra prior to ejaculation. Most guys know this secretion as "pre-cum." Some people secrete much more of it than others; in fact, many men don't even notice it at all. During sexual stimulation, all of these organs kick into high gear to prepare for an ejaculation. The testicles get slightly larger as they become congested with blood, and the seminal vesicles, prostate, and Cowper's glands begin to secrete their respective fluids. A small amount of sperm may enter the ejaculatory duct and mix with the Cowper's secretions, which is why it is not safe during sexual intercourse to assume pre-ejaculation fluids do not contain sperm. The campus life post was from the University of Toronto�s sexual education center. Do you have a problem this source that says the same things as those other sources you deem �dubious?� Is Planned Parenthood a reliable source, even though some of their information is directed at teens? Pregnancy cannot happen if sperm is kept out of the vagina. HOW WELL WITHDRAWAL WORKS Of every 100 women whose partners use withdrawal, 19 will become pregnant during the first year of typical use. Of every 100 women whose partners use withdrawal, four will become pregnant during the first year of perfect use. Pre-ejaculate can contain enough sperm to cause pregnancy. Pregnancy is also possible if semen or pre-ejaculate is spilled on the vulva. Withdrawal offers no protection against sexually transmitted infections. Latex or female condoms can reduce the risk of infection <a href="http://www.plannedparenthood.org/bc/bcfacts12.html" target="_blank">http://www.plannedparenthood.org/bc/bcfacts12.html</a> From Women�s Health: <a href="http://womenshealth.about.com/library/weekly/aa052599.htm" target="_blank">http://womenshealth.about.com/library/weekly/aa052599.htm</a> Withdrawal The effectiveness of withdrawal depends upon the man's ability to withdraw his penis from the vagina before he ejaculates. This method does not guarantee that pre-ejaculatory sperm has not been released into the vagina and does not provide protection against AIDS, sexually transmitted diseases, or infections. Don't Be Fooled Maybe you have heard that you cannot get pregnant on your period, or if you don't have an orgasm, or if your partner pulls out before ejaculation that pregnancy won't occur--these are not true! Perhaps someone has told you that douching will wash away the sperm before pregnancy can occur. Not only does douching not work to prevent pregnancy, it can also lead to pelvic inflammatory disease and increase your risk of other STDs and infections. And the information on your 1st site is pretty darn close to what I posted from the University of Toronto�s Sexual Education Department, Your point is? Nor does any of the information you posted actually discredit the factualness of the information I posted either by the �teen� sites, or the University one. How many sperm does it take to get a woman pregnant? I probably should have spent a few more minutes finding more sites, but I think my last post sufficiently covers that withdrawal is not fool-proof and women can and do get pregnant from it. Shit, my sister has been pregnant 8 times in 12 years by her husband using the �withdrawal� method of birth control. She is now having baby #5 and had 3 miscarriages. None of her babies were �planned� and the 1st came before they were engaged. And so if you aren�t actually trying to have a baby, as so many couples do and you just happen to get pregnant how exactly is it not �unplanned?� So, go ahead and do whatever you want to do. But I would hate for any teens or others out there to read your story and think that it�s safe to have unprotected sex. B Edited to add: 5 Reasons why contraception fails - <a href="http://womenshealth.about.com/library/weekly/aa052201a.htm" target="_blank">http://womenshealth.about.com/library/weekly/aa052201a.htm</a> [ June 13, 2002: Message edited by: brighid ]</p>

06-13-2002, 08:43 AM	#117
HelenM Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Ill Posts: 6,577	Let's be clear that the odds of getting pregnant are not necessarily decreased by managing not to on other occasions. Successfully avoiding pregnancy in the past might indicate low fertility or a great deal of adeptness in contraceptive methods or efficacy of methods. Or, it might not. [ June 13, 2002: Message edited by: HelenSL ]</p>

06-13-2002, 10:00 AM	#118
Ted Hoffman Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: "" Posts: 3,863	Brighid The effectiveness of withdrawal depends upon the man's ability to withdraw his penis from the vagina before he ejaculates So if I am adept at withdrawing in time, should I act like everyone else? Maybe I have a talent. Have you considered that? Some men are wired very accurately and every contraction can be sensed and reacted upon. Or maybe I am just sterile and I dont know. Or maybe she tops it up with pills secretly. Maybe you are just angry at your sister and her hubby. Your point is valid though: it is less safer. But it is also more pleasurable. Everything has a price. Dark Jedi After reading through this thread and Intensity's obstinate adherance to withdrawal, I have one question: Have you and her picked out any names yet? If its a boy, it will be Michael. If its a girl, it will be Angela (for Angela Hanson - Scigirl ) or Helen. Baloo On a hundred dollar bet, a man points a revolver with five barrels and one bullet to his head, spins the barrels, pulls the trigger, again spins the barrels, and again pulls the trigger. The gun does not fire either time; both times he takes his $100. Answer me honestly: based on his experience, do you think he would be wise to go for a third $100, given that he didn't get shot the first two times, or quit while he's ahead? Wrong analogy but what the heck... *considers* *considers* *considers* *considers* *chews his nails* **scratches his head twirls his fingers contemplates the roof** Naah, the analogy is too wack. I could have sex 10000 times with coitus I and not have a baby. The chances are slim, but its possible. With your roulette chap, he should not even try once. His game is life-destroying while mine is life-creating (immortality). His depends on numbers (1/5). Mine depends on good timing during withdrawal. Besides, mine is combined with rhythm. And 100 dollars is not worth risking your life for. Mind-blowing sex can give you a beautiful baby, more love, intimacy and infinite ecstacy. Sex is one of the purest forms of energy. One of the most beautiful natural processes. Some people reach nirvana through sex. Can you really compare that with 100 dollars? But okay, he should quit while he is ahead. I think thats what I would do. [ June 13, 2002: Message edited by: IntenSity ]</p>

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06-13-2002, 06:39 AM	#111
HelenM Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Ill Posts: 6,577	I wish you the best, Dark Jedi I said "unlikely" so as not to generalize. I didn't say "impossible" . I daresay the statistics would still bear me out, tomorrow after 2:30 But I hope it goes well and doesn't cause you too much discomfort. love Helen

06-13-2002, 06:58 AM	#114
Dark Jedi Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Afghanistan Posts: 4,666	After reading through this thread and Intensity's obstinate adherance to withdrawal, I have one question: Have you and her picked out any names yet?

06-13-2002, 07:00 AM	#115
brighid Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: somewhere in the known Universe Posts: 6,993	Helen, I haven't had a chance to look through all of the information but here is a link about the cancer risks, etc. of the Birth Control Pill: <a href="http://womenshealth.about.com/library/bloccarsk.htm" target="_blank">http://womenshealth.about.com/library/bloccarsk.htm</a> Brighid

06-13-2002, 07:23 AM	#116
Baloo Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 417	IntenSity, When I say "use both of them", I kind of meant with a little more redundancy. That means during her peak feritility time, do not have sex. During her off-peak times, use withdrawal. Also, a little more to consider. The statistics that Brighid cited indicate there is 5:1 chance that coitus interruptus will work, given a year of use (I assume you qualify as a "typical" user). The odds of going two full years without fail are about 2:1 (in other words, for every 3 couples that use the method for two years, only 1 will get pregnant). Basically, the fact that you haven't knowcked her up yet IN NO WAY indicates that you two are special - hell, you aren't even beating the odds. On a hundred dollar bet, a man points a revolver with five barrels and one bullet to his head, spins the barrels, pulls the trigger, again spins the barrels, and again pulls the trigger. The gun does not fire either time; both times he takes his $100. Answer me honestly: based on his experience, do you think he would be wise to go for a third $100, given that he didn't get shot the first two times, or quit while he's ahead?

06-13-2002, 10:36 AM	#119
brighid Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: somewhere in the known Universe Posts: 6,993	Intensity, Intensity, Maybe you are just that good and that in tune with your body, or maybe you are shooting blanks! I have a friend who consistently drives drunk � oh for about 7 years now and she hasn�t killed herself or anybody else � yet. Eventually, she will. She�s been lucky, or maybe she�s just that good of a drunk driver. B

06-13-2002, 10:39 AM	#120
Baloo Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 417	IntenSity, I have effectively rolled a dice 2 times in a row, without getting a six. Does this indicate I have a flair for "not rolling sixes", and will probably never get a six? If the chances of getting a six on any given roll is 1 in 6, is my past experience evidence that I have less than a 1 in 6 chance of getting a six on my third roll? You have effectively used CI two years in a row, without getting a baby. Does this indicate you have a flair for CI, and will probably never get a baby (using CI)? If the chances of getting a baby for any given year of CI is 1 in 5, is your past experience evidence that you have less than a 1 in 5 chance of getting a baby on your third year?

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