dostf

popeontheropes:

Unless you have constuctive critisism or ideas related to the original post, please refrain from posting

Thanks

Be seeing you...

Adrian Selby

you say truth is a natural living. what kind of truth is a natural living, only if everyone, as you suggest, lives naturally, is that truth? If so, what can we do with that, after all, everyone lives differently. Are you suggesting there is a truth that can be arrived at by living naturally, or that by not actively seeking truth (meaning of life I take it is synonymous) one finds or is truth?

popeontheropes

dostf: your origianal post :


Truth is not: dependant on time or space ie. "found in the past" or "to be found in the future"- it is progressive.
Truth is not: for sale in any way, shape, or form.

Truth is not: expressable in words.

Truth is not: contrary to reason.

Truth is not: "outside of you somewhere".ie. separate from the human being.

Truth is not: related to anything else.

Truth is not: "achievable" by any religious, philosophical, logical, or scientific "path".

Truth is not: dependant on any kind of "faith" whatsoever.

Truth is not: related to any "moral code" or "ritual behaviour of any kind".

Truth is not: an understanding of some kind.

TRUTH IS:

Truth is: a wholeness that may be defined as the human being.

Truth is: a living- not a "feeling" "understanding" "idea" etc.

Truth is: progressive-as is the human being.

Truth is: in one aspect relative to our individual "situation"

Truth is: "past" the "supposed existance of self"

Truth is: explained by a "reason based on science"

Truth is : " a natural living"

Truth is : "past the stage of love" - but is dependant on it.

Truth is : a word used to describe "a living".

Truth is : you and me -if only we didn't think of "ourselves" as "something we are not"

Any questions, comments, are welcomed. I will try to respond as soon as possible...

Thanks



and now my first response to this thread:


truth is: sunshine
truth is: road-kill

truth is: easy

truth is: hard

truth is: the boogie-man

truth is: a secret


truth is: the adjective

truth is: public enemy #1

truth is: the sky is not blue

truth is: allways demanded but seldom allways offered

truth is: nothing you really want to know

truth is: purely human. no other creature on earth lies or has need to.

truth is: the result of impurity and un-naturalism.

truth is: malls are brain-washing machines

truth is: i was an artist until i gave up on myself


your response to my post:

popeontheropes:
Unless you have constuctive critisism or ideas related to the original post, please refrain from posting

Thanks

Be seeing you...

o.k. so let me understand this: we all need to respond to your origianal ideas . so i should only cosider your thoughts as germain and ponder your great wisdom and then respond to them
who are you ? exactly..?
and , while i am at it , where do you get off displaying that level of ignorant , pompous piety. all i did was respond , in kind ,with my own thoughts and real feelings , about the subject at hand. if you wanted all posts qualified according to some invisible guidlines then you should have made this private and by invitation only.
i am terribly sorry if all of my points aren't psuedo- highbrow enough for you. never the less , they are my true beliefs and if you would like to call them into question please do so in the spirit of discussion , within this thread, rather than summarily dismissing me and my post and asking me to refrain from posting unless i want to contribute to your narcissistic need to be the boss.
i did glance down to view your member status and i did not recall seei9ng the word 'moderator' ..perhaps you should be mindfull of that fact while asking people to 'refrain from posting'
and yes, you will be seeing me. <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

dostf

Adrian:

I have stated this idea before in another part of this thread.
The idea is people have many ideas about how to find or attain "truth". Religions(in particular) are full of rules and rituals designed to "help" an individual reach that goal.
For example reomove yourself from society and live in a monastery for 50 years, or pray constantly, do all sorts or "exercises" designed to "free" oneself, abstain from sex, wear "special" clothing, don't eat particular foods, etc etc.
All these i would state are NOT natural ways of living. They do not lead to "truth" of any kind, and often cause more damage than good. One need not do any of these to "live truth".
They are in contrast to natural living-ie. eating what you like, having a job, family etc.ie. normal reasonable living..

I hope this is clear?

thanks

Be seeing you...

dostf

pope on the ropes:

dostf

popeontheropes:

Please forgive my "arrogance" in this matter. If in fact your list of "truth is" is a genuine reflection of your thoughts on this topic.
However, when the first two items are "truth is sunshine" and "truth is roadkill" one wonders if one is having their "leg pulled", or ridiculed in some manner.

thanks

Be seeing you...

popeontheropes

[QUOTE][b]Truth is not: dependant on time or space ie. "found in the past" or "to be found in the future"- it is progressive.[/B

i agree . truth is a concept, not an actual 'thing'. therefor it could not be dependant upon anything other than perception.

Truth is not: for sale in any way, shape, or form.

maybee so but, it certainly isn't free. it will cost you your innocense. it cost you your way of life. it could cost you your beliefs or it could cost you your life.

Truth is not: expressable in words.


i disagree. truth is a concept based on perception and is , therefor , only expressable in words and actions.
the truth is not real, it is a discriptive assertation of a situatuion or particular state of being relative to the observed facts( what actually is..)
you could look at a leaf on a tree and say that it is green and you would be stating the truth relative to your perception and knowlege of color and leaves. but it would be far from the truth. you see green because the leafg is every color but green and as such absorbs all other colors in the visible spectrum and reflects green which is what you see.
it would be the truth to say that the leaf isn't green.
.
[B Truth is not: contrary to reason B]

In some instances it is ,as in the case of the leaf. reason tells you the leaf is green, but it isn't.

[BTruth is not: "outside of you somewhere".ie. separate from the human being.B]


true that !

[BTruth is not: related to anything else.B]

i agree but i think i covered why i agree previously in this post

[BTruth is not: "achievable" by any religious, philosophical, logical, or scientific "path".B]

i would like an explaination of this. i may agree
but i need to know what you mean exactly.


[BTruth is not: dependant on any kind of "faith" whatsoever.B]

absolutly

Truth is not: related to any "moral code" or "ritual behaviour of any kind".

nope

[BTruth is not: an understanding of some kind.B]

yes, but without understanding, the truth is irrelavent.


[BTRUTH IS:B]

yes it is

[BTruth is: a wholeness that may be defined as the human being.B]

what?

[BTruth is: a living- not a "feeling" "understanding" "idea" etc.B]

reality is a living. truth is the descriptive concept used to express the facts of that reality to others who don't know what it is .


[BTruth is: progressive-as is the human being.B]

please explain.


Truth is: in one aspect relative to our individual "situation"

Truth is: "past" the "supposed existance of self"
??????????????????????????????????????????

Truth is: explained by a "reason based on science"

[BTruth is : " a natural living"B]

o.k. i know what you mean...but i don't believe the two are particularly related in any way.

[BTruth is : "past the stage of love" - but is dependant on it.B]

c'mon now, i don't need to love you in order to tell you the truth. what i need is to be an honest person and be bound by my morrals to tell you what i think regardless of weather or not you like it or want to hear it.


Truth is : a word used to describe "a living".

Truth is : you and me -if only we didn't think of "ourselves" as "something we are not"

hmmmm

Any questions, comments, are welcomed. I will try to respond as soon as possible...

Thanks....
[QUOTE]

popeontheropes

dostf, THANK YOU FOR THE APPOLOGY. AND YES THESE IDEAS ARE AN ACURATE REFLECTION OF MY TRUE FEELINGS. I WAS DEPENDING A LITTLE ON THE READER TO ACTUALLY THINK ABOUT WHAT I SAID FOR A MOMENT AND THAT MAY HAVE BEEN A MISTAKE.
my point behind sunshine and road kill are ;
sunshine is to life as truth is to freedom.
and road kill happens regardless of your liking it or not. and you can't stop it.
that was a little tounge -in-cheek but still acurate.

dostf

popeontheropes:

[QUOTE]Truth is not: dependant on time or space ie. "found in the past" or "to be found in the future"- it is progressive.[/B
i agree . truth is a concept, not an actual 'thing'. therefor it could not be dependant upon anything other than perception.(pope)

- yes truth is not a thing. I do not agree however that truth is a concept based on ones perception
- there are several angles here
- truth is not found in the past(religion etc.) or in some "future time"
- the living of truth which i contend is not separate or different than the human being, is not subject to time or space
- the explanations and living of truth progresses as the human being progresses, it is not stagnant or have an "end"-or begginning for that matter

[B]Truth is not: for sale in any way, shape, or form.

maybee so but, it certainly isn't free. it will cost you your innocense. it cost you your way of life. it could cost you your beliefs or it could cost you your life.(pope)

- i would not disagree with your statement
- the idea was meant in opposition to those that would "charge" money or other benefits for their version of giving another the "truth"

Truth is not: expressable in words.


i disagree. truth is a concept based on perception and is , therefor , only expressable in words and actions.(pope)

- again i would disagree truth is not a perception
- our "perceptions" are limited as you have shown by your "leaf" example

[B Truth is not: contrary to reason B]

In some instances it is ,as in the case of the leaf. reason tells you the leaf is green, but it isn't.(pope)

- the idea here is the explanations given for "truth" should not be in any way reliant on "faith" or "belief"
- the colour of the leaf is dependant on ones perception of that object. One can be more or less accurate. That is all.

[BTruth is not: "achievable" by any religious, philosophical, logical, or scientific "path".B]

i would like an explaination of this. i may agree
but i need to know what you mean exactly.(pope)

- the idea here is that the various "ways" commonly available (religious, philosophical, logical,etc.) that claim they are the "road to truth" are false

[BTruth is not: an understanding of some kind.B]

yes, but without understanding, the truth is irrelavent.(pope)

- I would not disagree with this statement
- the idea here is that truth is not an "understanding" but a "living"

BTruth is: a wholeness that may be defined as the human being.B]

what?(pope)

- the idea here is truth and the human being are not separate
- because of mistaken ideas about "our self", and the minds function to categorize, compare and organize our envirornment for our normal functioning, (necessary) we always see in "parts"
- truth however is a "wholeness" that is the human being who has "passed" this way of functioning

[BTruth is: a living- not a "feeling" "understanding" "idea" etc.B]

reality is a living. truth is the descriptive concept used to express the facts of that reality to others who don't know what it is .(pope)

- certainly an accurate statement i would agree with
- however from a language standpoint i do not differentiate between the words "truth" and "reality"

[BTruth is: progressive-as is the human being.B]

please explain.(pope)

- as i stated earlier, truth and the human being are not seperate
- as humans progress so to does their expression and living of that truth.
- This is in opposition to historical thought(religious or otherwise) that would "fix" truth to a certain time period or individual

Truth is: "past" the "supposed existance of self"
??????????????????????????????????????????(pope)

- The idea here is that we describe "ourselves" by being the sum of all the characteristics or qualities that relate to "me". This is dependant on our upbringing, education , envirorment, etc.
( I am a white male of irish descent) for example
- taken all these characteristics together, is how we define "what or who i am"
- this i maintain is not true
- this "self" is a "supposition" (comprised of the sum of characteristics or qualities)
- it is not "real" or said another way is not what is the human being is
- "truth" is "past" this position

[BTruth is : " a natural living"B]

o.k. i know what you mean...but i don't believe the two are particularly related in any way.(pope)

- the idea here is inoppositon to what i might describe as "unnatrual living" ( ie living in a monastary, prasyer every day, no sex, etc.) all in hopes they will lead to "truth" somehow- or "god" or "enlightenment" whatever word one might use

BTruth is : "past the stage of love" - but is dependant on it.B]

c'mon now, i don't need to love you in order to tell you the truth. what i need is to be an honest person and be bound by my morrals to tell you what i think regardless of weather or not you like it or want to hear it.(pope)

- I contend the truth is not "told" it is lived.
- Love between 2 humans is the "key" that allows one to "pass" the "false self".
- Certainly honesty and morals are important or one might say prerequisites in these matters- otherwise it is some kind of deception usually for gain of some sort

Truth is : you and me -if only we didn't think of "ourselves" as "something we are not"

hmmmm(pope)

- i think i explained the idea related to this point earlier

Thanks for your critique

Be seeing you..

dostf

popeontheropes:


dostf, THANK YOU FOR THE APPOLOGY. AND YES THESE IDEAS ARE AN ACURATE REFLECTION OF MY TRUE FEELINGS. I WAS DEPENDING A LITTLE ON THE READER TO ACTUALLY THINK ABOUT WHAT I SAID FOR A MOMENT AND THAT MAY HAVE BEEN A MISTAKE.
my point behind sunshine and road kill are ;
sunshine is to life as truth is to freedom.
and road kill happens regardless of your liking it or not. and you can't stop it.
that was a little tounge -in-cheek but still acurate. (pope)

-no worries!
- perhaps with further explanations like the ones you have just given, I would not have been so quick to dismiss them
- i should have inquired further ,but was not sure if they were "serious" or not.
- feel free to expand on your ideas as you wish here, or perhaps in your own thread
- i did however think the "personal comments" were not needed to voice your displeasure to my original response.

Thanks

Be seeing you...