Freethought & Rationalism Archive

gilly54 · 07-04-2002, 10:09 PM

All the cases of spontaneous regression of "cancers" that were reported in the medical literature that I've seen, after being researched were found to have misdiagnosed. Ockham's Razor wins again!

KontinMonet · 07-05-2002, 06:00 AM

A few months ago, the CD player in the living room started playing at 05:30 in the morning. At the same time, the main light in the same room began to flash on and off. My wife was convinced it was a poltergeist or a burglar and cowered in bed leaving me to investigate.

I switched off the CD player, determining my wife had managed to switch on the alarm system on the CD. Later on, I discovered the light switch was some cheap piece of tat that had broken internally and was making and breaking randomly.

Since then, we have had no incidents and I didn't feel constrained to notify the authorities or sell my story to the TV.

shinobi909 · 07-06-2002, 05:22 PM

A somewhat halfway position between lying and self deception. Sometimes people see a mundane thing, like maybe a light out the corner of the eye, or a fleeting shadow in the bushes, then they embelish the story, sometimes unconsiously, because it makes it more interesting that way.

I remember when I was talking about ghosts to a co-worker one day, and she said "Have you ever woken up unable to breathe, with a heavy weight pressing down on your chest?" I said no. This other guy pipes in and says "That's a spirit sitting on you." Great, when you die you become a ghost that is condemed to spend the rest of etenity going around sitting on sleeping people.

I said it must have a mundane explanation. At the time I was not familiar with sleep paralisis, which is what they are talking about.

Conclusion: That stuff is all bunkum.

Viti · 07-06-2002, 05:43 PM

Sleep paralysis often is accomanied by hallucinations and can easily explain numerous "paranormal" experiences

shinobi909 · 07-07-2002, 05:01 AM

Yeah, lots of ghost stories begin with, I was in bed and... or I just woke up and....

Viti · 07-07-2002, 06:33 AM

Here's a great site on <a href="http://www.arts.uwaterloo.ca/~acheyne/S_P.html" target="_blank">Sleep Paralysis</a>

Take the survey as well, it helps them gather more data

Bree · 07-07-2002, 06:50 AM

Anyone more scientifically minded than I able to explain these two phenomenon? I'm smart enough to realise there must be a reason why this stuff happens, but I'm not smart enough to figure out why.

We have a "haunted house" here in my city - it's supposedly famous, people have written books about it et cetera. Anyway, the place is now a restaurant (making money off the ghost thing) - and when you go in to eat, your wrist watch will stop. Happens to everyone who has a non-digital watch. I went there just to see if my watch (a relatively new Fossil) would stop, and sure enough, it did. The only person who this did not happen to was one of my good friends (atheist coworker) who had an antique watch from his grandfather - it was the kind you have to wind nightly.

I also used to work in a "haunted" restaurant in Bayfield, WI (this was in my younger days). Legend has it that the original owner of the restaurant never wants the place closed down for the night - whenever we would unplug the "OPEN" sign (one of those neon jobs in every greasy spoon) it would continue to stay lit even without electricity. I'm almost certain this has something to do with the neon gas inside the tubes, but again, I'm not sure.

Wisconsin is a very "haunted" place - Schofield, WI lays claim to the house that inspired the story "Poltergeist."

liquid · 07-07-2002, 07:23 AM

Neon sign - it would not stay lit without a high potential difference (assuming it IS a neon or other noble gas light). Therefore, either that was not the real or only mains connection, or it was attached to its own power supply. A more esoteric but probably completely unnecessary possibility is the use of induction by an adjacent cable to create a current in the light circuit.

Watch stopping... not sure yet. Will investigate.

Bree · 07-07-2002, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by liquid:

<strong>Neon sign - it would not stay lit without a high potential difference (assuming it IS a neon or other noble gas light). Therefore, either that was not the real or only mains connection, or it was attached to its own power supply. A more esoteric but probably completely unnecessary possibility is the use of induction by an adjacent cable to create a current in the light circuit.</strong>

It was a definate true neon sign - my best friend's father was the guy who made it. Would it be possible to feed in electrical current from somewhere other than an outlet? Say that the restaurant owner wanted to create the illusion of paranormal activity - do you think she could possibly have rigged the sign to a permanent source of electric current so, even when the actual plug was pulled, the sign continued to stay lit?

I know nothing of electronics.

MattMarengo · 07-07-2002, 07:36 AM

As liquid pointed out, induction could do this. By running a circuit nearby, you can use the magnetic field to run a second circuit. I do doubt that induction be strong enough to light a large sign, but I don't really know - I've seen flourescent bulbs light "through the air" by a related process (I think - nasty habit of falling asleep during E&M lectures)

If you ever go back to the restaurant and want to test it, you could move the sign away from the wall or even outside.

Matt

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07-04-2002, 10:09 PM	#11
gilly54 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: New Almaden, California Posts: 917	All the cases of spontaneous regression of "cancers" that were reported in the medical literature that I've seen, after being researched were found to have misdiagnosed. Ockham's Razor wins again!

07-05-2002, 06:00 AM	#12
KontinMonet Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 8	A few months ago, the CD player in the living room started playing at 05:30 in the morning. At the same time, the main light in the same room began to flash on and off. My wife was convinced it was a poltergeist or a burglar and cowered in bed leaving me to investigate. I switched off the CD player, determining my wife had managed to switch on the alarm system on the CD. Later on, I discovered the light switch was some cheap piece of tat that had broken internally and was making and breaking randomly. Since then, we have had no incidents and I didn't feel constrained to notify the authorities or sell my story to the TV.

07-06-2002, 05:22 PM	#13
shinobi909 Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 93	A somewhat halfway position between lying and self deception. Sometimes people see a mundane thing, like maybe a light out the corner of the eye, or a fleeting shadow in the bushes, then they embelish the story, sometimes unconsiously, because it makes it more interesting that way. I remember when I was talking about ghosts to a co-worker one day, and she said "Have you ever woken up unable to breathe, with a heavy weight pressing down on your chest?" I said no. This other guy pipes in and says "That's a spirit sitting on you." Great, when you die you become a ghost that is condemed to spend the rest of etenity going around sitting on sleeping people. I said it must have a mundane explanation. At the time I was not familiar with sleep paralisis, which is what they are talking about. Conclusion: That stuff is all bunkum.

07-06-2002, 05:43 PM	#14
Viti Contributor Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Down South Posts: 12,879	Sleep paralysis often is accomanied by hallucinations and can easily explain numerous "paranormal" experiences

07-07-2002, 05:01 AM	#15
shinobi909 Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 93	Yeah, lots of ghost stories begin with, I was in bed and... or I just woke up and....

07-07-2002, 06:33 AM	#16
Viti Contributor Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Down South Posts: 12,879	Here's a great site on <a href="http://www.arts.uwaterloo.ca/~acheyne/S_P.html" target="_blank">Sleep Paralysis</a> Take the survey as well, it helps them gather more data

07-07-2002, 06:50 AM	#17
Bree Veteran Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Twin Cities, USA Posts: 3,197	Anyone more scientifically minded than I able to explain these two phenomenon? I'm smart enough to realise there must be a reason why this stuff happens, but I'm not smart enough to figure out why. We have a "haunted house" here in my city - it's supposedly famous, people have written books about it et cetera. Anyway, the place is now a restaurant (making money off the ghost thing) - and when you go in to eat, your wrist watch will stop. Happens to everyone who has a non-digital watch. I went there just to see if my watch (a relatively new Fossil) would stop, and sure enough, it did. The only person who this did not happen to was one of my good friends (atheist coworker) who had an antique watch from his grandfather - it was the kind you have to wind nightly. I also used to work in a "haunted" restaurant in Bayfield, WI (this was in my younger days). Legend has it that the original owner of the restaurant never wants the place closed down for the night - whenever we would unplug the "OPEN" sign (one of those neon jobs in every greasy spoon) it would continue to stay lit even without electricity. I'm almost certain this has something to do with the neon gas inside the tubes, but again, I'm not sure. Wisconsin is a very "haunted" place - Schofield, WI lays claim to the house that inspired the story "Poltergeist."

07-07-2002, 07:23 AM	#18
liquid Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: UK Posts: 1,440	Neon sign - it would not stay lit without a high potential difference (assuming it IS a neon or other noble gas light). Therefore, either that was not the real or only mains connection, or it was attached to its own power supply. A more esoteric but probably completely unnecessary possibility is the use of induction by an adjacent cable to create a current in the light circuit. Watch stopping... not sure yet. Will investigate.

07-07-2002, 07:36 AM	#20
MattMarengo Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Urbana, IL, USA Posts: 7	As liquid pointed out, induction could do this. By running a circuit nearby, you can use the magnetic field to run a second circuit. I do doubt that induction be strong enough to light a large sign, but I don't really know - I've seen flourescent bulbs light "through the air" by a related process (I think - nasty habit of falling asleep during E&M lectures) If you ever go back to the restaurant and want to test it, you could move the sign away from the wall or even outside. Matt

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