Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Half-Life · 07-04-2002, 11:50 AM

I was just watching unsolved mysteries and I saw something about paranormal activity. In this house on august 4th 1892, 2 people were hacked to death with an ax to the head. People started hearing strange noises when they came into the house. One woman heard the sound of children playing with marbles in the room right above her. When she walked upstairs, she saw the window slamming up and down violently. She ran out of the house to repport it. Then, a couple days later, she saw an old woman in the basement who was a ghost. She was floating about 4 inches off the ground. When she brought in an investigator reporter to investigate the ghost, she brought a voice recorder with her, and she asked if anyone was here, and the voice indicator was moving but they heard nothing. When they played back the tape, they heard a voice talking. Other employess at the house who didn�t believe in ghosts, saw the imprint of someone lying in the bed, and there was no one in the house but her. And one woman saw smoke coming from the kitchen even though she was in the house alone. The smoke went from the kitchen, and then when it got to the spot where the man was murdered on the couch, it disappeared. This is all weird paranormal activity. I was wonder your opinion about this stuff. Were all these people actually hallucinating??? I don�t see this as a valid option.

Another story was where this woman and her son were missing for 5 days. A passenger was driving past the road that they were last on, and she saw a naked woman lying on the side of the road. When she called the police, the police found no naked woman, but at that spot, they found the womans car with her in it, and her son, smashed to smitherians. People believe the naked was her spirit trying to tell people that her son is still down there alive. Sure enough, when the cop went down there to check, her son was alive, but his mom was dead in the front seat. Whose body was naked on the side of the road and then just mysteriously disappeared? These 2 stories are very much food for thought. They make you think good. Whether or not they are proof of the paranormal, I do not know, but it is an interesting topic to discusss.

liquid · 07-04-2002, 12:04 PM

This is all well and good, but where's the evidence?! I've got nothing but your word that these events ocurred at all!

And if it is anything like the 'unsolved mysteries' that was on TV for a while a couple of years back in the UK... well, they were found to be fabricating evidence, footage and testimonies. Minor stuff, but enough to prevent a proper explanation being offered for the events.

Viti · 07-04-2002, 12:48 PM

Unsolved Mysteries is entertaining but hardly objective, they sensationalize and dramatize for the entertainment value and don't even claim to be scientific.

The story of the woman by the side of the road is a retelling of similar "ghost stories" that have been around for hundreds of years...pick up some old story books, you'll see.

As for haunted houses, people interpret all sorts of mundane noises differently based on their preconceived notions or nature. Say there were sounds of footsteps on the roof...some would say it was ghosts if they believed in that sort of stuff, a fundamentalist Xian may decide it is demons, a skeptic would conclude an animal.

As fo seeing ghosts, there are many possibilities beyond hallucinations...the simplest, and probably closest to the truth, is that the people who make such claims are lying. Why would they lie? To get their names and faces on TV, to feel important, for monetary gain like the Lutz family of Amityville Horror fame...numerous reasons.

liquid · 07-04-2002, 12:53 PM

Quote:

As for haunted houses, people interpret all sorts of mundane noises differently based on their preconceived notions or nature.

Indeed. I get a ghostly scratching on my roof all the time, and sometimes even tapping on the window, often in conjuction with the light going on or off.

It's actually magpies.

Half-Life · 07-04-2002, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LadyShea:
<strong>Unsolved Mysteries is entertaining but hardly objective, they sensationalize and dramatize for the entertainment value and don't even claim to be scientific.

The story of the woman by the side of the road is a retelling of similar "ghost stories" that have been around for hundreds of years...pick up some old story books, you'll see.

As for haunted houses, people interpret all sorts of mundane noises differently based on their preconceived notions or nature. Say there were sounds of footsteps on the roof...some would say it was ghosts if they believed in that sort of stuff, a fundamentalist Xian may decide it is demons, a skeptic would conclude an animal.

As fo seeing ghosts, there are many possibilities beyond hallucinations...the simplest, and probably closest to the truth, is that the people who make such claims are lying. Why would they lie? To get their names and faces on TV, to feel important, for monetary gain like the Lutz family of Amityville Horror fame...numerous reasons.</strong>

She saw the window slamming up and down violently. Was she lying if she did not believe in ghosts until this happened?

Viti · 07-04-2002, 01:04 PM

She was probably lying...she got attention and her story on TV right? She also may be mentally ill and hallucinated the whole thing, or dreamed it and thought it was real, or the wind blew the window, or any number of things.

edited to add further possibilities...she may not have been lying.

[ July 04, 2002: Message edited by: LadyShea ]</p>

Half-Life · 07-04-2002, 03:52 PM

I just watched another episode of unsolved mysteries. They had a girl on there who had cancer, and she went and touched the grave of this little girl tht died of cancer 30 years before her. She was healed fully. When she went to her grave, she was the worst that her condition has ever been. She had been to her grave before, when she was in better condition, but nothing happened. Then she was the worst and almost died within a week and she was fully healed 20 seconds after touching the grave. What do you think?

liquid · 07-04-2002, 04:52 PM

I'm thinking this too is a load of crock. Now, getting past the obvious possibility of lying (No names, dates, sources, medical evidence etc etc)...

1)Spontaneous remission is not exactly uncommon, and can occur for all sorts of biochemical reasons.

2)How on earth would you know without a portable 3 tonne MRI scanner that the tumour was in remission?! Even if symptoms wax and wane you cannot tell.

3)The previous visit did nothing, lending evidence to the view that the grave had nothing to do with it at all.

4)Thinking about it, the destruction a reasonable tumour inside the body within the space of seconds wold produce all sorts of nasty side effects, from organ collapse to self-digestion.

5)And what about reappearance of the cancer?

Exactly why are you wasting our time with the claims?

One of the last sane · 07-04-2002, 06:07 PM

We have a window in a bedroom of our house that spontaneously opens itself (upwards) if not locked down. Push it down, get back into bed, tive minutes later up it goes again. I call it, a warped window frame.

Viti · 07-04-2002, 09:03 PM

The most freaked out I have ever been...I was wakened by the sound of someone trying to start our family car over and over again but it wouldn't turn over (you know the sound). Now my family is very mechanically inclined and knew better than to keep attempting, so I went outside to yell at the fool and there was NOBODY IN THE CAR...yet it kept trying to start right in front of me!

It was an electrical problem.

Cancer goes into remission, we don't have dated xrays of this girls tumor before and after...it's entertainment half-life...are you really so gullible?

07-04-2002, 11:50 AM	#1
Half-Life Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: A place in the Northern Hemisphere of Planet Earth Posts: 1,250	Food for thought: Paranormal Activity I was just watching unsolved mysteries and I saw something about paranormal activity. In this house on august 4th 1892, 2 people were hacked to death with an ax to the head. People started hearing strange noises when they came into the house. One woman heard the sound of children playing with marbles in the room right above her. When she walked upstairs, she saw the window slamming up and down violently. She ran out of the house to repport it. Then, a couple days later, she saw an old woman in the basement who was a ghost. She was floating about 4 inches off the ground. When she brought in an investigator reporter to investigate the ghost, she brought a voice recorder with her, and she asked if anyone was here, and the voice indicator was moving but they heard nothing. When they played back the tape, they heard a voice talking. Other employess at the house who didn�t believe in ghosts, saw the imprint of someone lying in the bed, and there was no one in the house but her. And one woman saw smoke coming from the kitchen even though she was in the house alone. The smoke went from the kitchen, and then when it got to the spot where the man was murdered on the couch, it disappeared. This is all weird paranormal activity. I was wonder your opinion about this stuff. Were all these people actually hallucinating??? I don�t see this as a valid option. Another story was where this woman and her son were missing for 5 days. A passenger was driving past the road that they were last on, and she saw a naked woman lying on the side of the road. When she called the police, the police found no naked woman, but at that spot, they found the womans car with her in it, and her son, smashed to smitherians. People believe the naked was her spirit trying to tell people that her son is still down there alive. Sure enough, when the cop went down there to check, her son was alive, but his mom was dead in the front seat. Whose body was naked on the side of the road and then just mysteriously disappeared? These 2 stories are very much food for thought. They make you think good. Whether or not they are proof of the paranormal, I do not know, but it is an interesting topic to discusss.

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07-04-2002, 12:04 PM	#2
liquid Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: UK Posts: 1,440	This is all well and good, but where's the evidence?! I've got nothing but your word that these events ocurred at all! And if it is anything like the 'unsolved mysteries' that was on TV for a while a couple of years back in the UK... well, they were found to be fabricating evidence, footage and testimonies. Minor stuff, but enough to prevent a proper explanation being offered for the events.

07-04-2002, 12:48 PM	#3
Viti Contributor Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Down South Posts: 12,879	Unsolved Mysteries is entertaining but hardly objective, they sensationalize and dramatize for the entertainment value and don't even claim to be scientific. The story of the woman by the side of the road is a retelling of similar "ghost stories" that have been around for hundreds of years...pick up some old story books, you'll see. As for haunted houses, people interpret all sorts of mundane noises differently based on their preconceived notions or nature. Say there were sounds of footsteps on the roof...some would say it was ghosts if they believed in that sort of stuff, a fundamentalist Xian may decide it is demons, a skeptic would conclude an animal. As fo seeing ghosts, there are many possibilities beyond hallucinations...the simplest, and probably closest to the truth, is that the people who make such claims are lying. Why would they lie? To get their names and faces on TV, to feel important, for monetary gain like the Lutz family of Amityville Horror fame...numerous reasons.

07-04-2002, 01:04 PM	#6
Viti Contributor Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Down South Posts: 12,879	She was probably lying...she got attention and her story on TV right? She also may be mentally ill and hallucinated the whole thing, or dreamed it and thought it was real, or the wind blew the window, or any number of things. edited to add further possibilities...she may not have been lying. [ July 04, 2002: Message edited by: LadyShea ]</p>

07-04-2002, 03:52 PM	#7
Half-Life Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: A place in the Northern Hemisphere of Planet Earth Posts: 1,250	I just watched another episode of unsolved mysteries. They had a girl on there who had cancer, and she went and touched the grave of this little girl tht died of cancer 30 years before her. She was healed fully. When she went to her grave, she was the worst that her condition has ever been. She had been to her grave before, when she was in better condition, but nothing happened. Then she was the worst and almost died within a week and she was fully healed 20 seconds after touching the grave. What do you think?

07-04-2002, 04:52 PM	#8
liquid Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: UK Posts: 1,440	I'm thinking this too is a load of crock. Now, getting past the obvious possibility of lying (No names, dates, sources, medical evidence etc etc)... 1)Spontaneous remission is not exactly uncommon, and can occur for all sorts of biochemical reasons. 2)How on earth would you know without a portable 3 tonne MRI scanner that the tumour was in remission?! Even if symptoms wax and wane you cannot tell. 3)The previous visit did nothing, lending evidence to the view that the grave had nothing to do with it at all. 4)Thinking about it, the destruction a reasonable tumour inside the body within the space of seconds wold produce all sorts of nasty side effects, from organ collapse to self-digestion. 5)And what about reappearance of the cancer? Exactly why are you wasting our time with the claims?

07-04-2002, 06:07 PM	#9
One of the last sane Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: hereabouts Posts: 734	We have a window in a bedroom of our house that spontaneously opens itself (upwards) if not locked down. Push it down, get back into bed, tive minutes later up it goes again. I call it, a warped window frame.

07-04-2002, 09:03 PM	#10
Viti Contributor Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Down South Posts: 12,879	The most freaked out I have ever been...I was wakened by the sound of someone trying to start our family car over and over again but it wouldn't turn over (you know the sound). Now my family is very mechanically inclined and knew better than to keep attempting, so I went outside to yell at the fool and there was NOBODY IN THE CAR...yet it kept trying to start right in front of me! It was an electrical problem. Cancer goes into remission, we don't have dated xrays of this girls tumor before and after...it's entertainment half-life...are you really so gullible?

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