King Rat

"Reason is the greatest enemy that faith has: it never comes to the aid of spritual things, but--more frequently than not --struggles against the Divine Word..."

-Martin Luther-

"Reason must be deluded, blinded, and destroyed. Faith must trample underfoot all reason, sense, and understanding, and whatever it sees must be put out of sight and ... know nothing but the word of God."

-Martin Luther-


"The damned whore Reason..."

-Martin Luther-

JusticeMachine

My point about censorship comes from the comment made by Emotional
Toleration = less censorship

Shadowy Man

You are correct that a theist need not necessarily lose his ability to reason. However, in order for the theist to at least remain honest, he must recognize the possibility that he may be wrong about his beliefs. If he gives that up, then he has surely lost his reason.

JusticeMachine

It is an articulate series of statements, however Martin Luther reasoned his way to that idea out of his own subjective experiences, that doesn't mean he is correct.

In fact I don't believe he is.

King Rat

I would hope not. Unfortunately you are probably in the minority

Armchair dissident

If the Muslims are right, and you're a christian: everything. If the christians are right and you're a muslim: everything. If the atheists are right, and you're a theist: simply the only life you'll ever have.

Of course, if you're a theist, and you pick the wrong religion, you're as doomed as if you'd had no religious belief.

If you use your beliefs in god to trip up the march of science, then the world has lost untold scientific discoveries. If you use it to further the prejudices forwarded by your religion, then the world has lost the opportunities afforded those people had you not been so prejudiced. If you could have accomplished so much more with your life had you not been so concerned with the will of your god, then the world has lost those potential gains to humanity as a whole.

It depends upon which belief is ultimately correct: If one of the many religions is correct, you may have eternal damnation, or you may not - assuming you picked the right one. If none of the religions are correct, then you've lost nothing.

I can't see that the world looses anything.

JusticeMachine

I know of no thiest that is aboslute sure (being without doubt) of his/her belief in GOD. They still reason, the difference is that the want/need it to be true (to them) so they will skew all incoming information they receive to fit their desired picture of reality, as does the athiest.

King Rat

I disagree with your statement. One of the reasons I stopped being a theist was because reality simply refused to conform to my religious filters. Reality is much too big to be contained by a shepherds myth.

JusticeMachine

In any decision there is lose of a sort and gain of a sort, but these in and of themselves are Amoral, neither good nor bad unless placed under the context of a supreme purpose.

If the march of science if the supreme purpose of life, then maybe religion is bad, depending on the religion. But if there is no supreme purpose to life, then who is to say that some lose is worse that others short of the small sect of people who wanted the specific gain that they were denied?




If this is a correct statement then I would choose a religion, because if it is right then I am covered, if it isn't then I am in the same boat as an athiest, but if I am an athiest, then I have not chance of a good out come if any of the religions are correct.

King Rat

Therein lies the rub. Which one is the 'right' religion? I would argue that your odds of choosing the wrong religion (hundreds to one) and going to hell are greater than me choosing none (50/50).