Harumi

Just the other day I was sitting in my government class, learning about how our constitution was formed and thinking of the brilliance of our founding fathers.

After class ended, I decided to ask my teacher her viewpoint regarding courts voting to post the Ten Commandments in the courtroom. She replied that it was perfectly fine and that there was a valid reason for putting it up. I was shocked.

Her rationale was this: The U.S. Constitution was based off of the Ten Commandments. In other words, our founding forefathers wrote the Constitution with the Ten Commandments as its basic outline.

I told her that that was impossible. Most of our founding forefathers were Deists, and almost all of them had scorned Christianity. She told me that that was a lie. Research had proved that what she said was true. Wherever I got my sources from, it was either quoting our forefathers out of context or they were all falsehoods and propaganda.

I asked her then, if our founding forefathers were Christian, why they would insist on the Separation of Church and State. She stated that the paragraph which Jefferson had stated this was ambiguous, and that depending on where you quote the paragraph, it can either support Church/State Separation or not. It can be debated.

She then finished by saying that it's not like they're making us read it. True, it does mention the Christian God, but as the Constitution was based off of it, she said that it was a perfectly rational reason to place the Ten Commandments in the courtroom.

Now I know that I'm not the brightest person in the world, but based on my own research for the past six months, what she said doesn't mesh with what I've read, and I know that I'm smart enough to sift through propaganda (or at least most of it) and that things I read weren't lines, they were whole pages, so I wasn't reading out of context.

Am I right or is my teacher right? I was flaming mad after the conversation, mainly because I thought that if she was right, all the atheists are goners, and if I'm right, then she's the stupidest to have ever taught government in school.

Anyone able to suggest to me books or reliable websites so that I can prove her wrong?



Harumi

ex-preacher

You are right, your teacher is wrong. I believe there is a book called "The Godless Constitution." I'm sure someone can link us to that. I am working on a Ph.D. in American History and can assure you that the Constitution is in no way, shape, or form based on the ten commandments. There is absolutely nothing even remotely in common between the two documents. I would ask your teacher to show exactly which statements in the Constitution are based on which commandments. You are also right about the key founders (Jefferson, Madison, Franklin, Washington) being Deists. They were not opponents of Christianity, but they were not orthodox Christians themselves.

Darwin's Finch

This is outrageous! Please tell me you don't go to a public school. Ask your teacher how many of the ten commandments she thinks would pass constitutional muster if made into law.

Grizzly

Harumi,

Try this one out. Ask your teacher how many of the 10 Commandments, if there were enacted as law, would be found to be unconstitutional? We had a discussion of this last Decemember

<a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=000429" target="_blank">Would the 10 commandments be unconstitutional?</a>

It seems that our constitution is actually designed to PROTECT us from the 10 commandments (or at least most of them).

Harumi

Sad thing is, I DO go to a public school, one which is reputed to actually be the top ten in the United States. I attend an IB curriculum (which is considered by some to be more challenging than AP levels, since it's on an international standard) school. It's the only public school which requires all students to take the IB courses in North America.

*sigh* That's the REALLY sad thing, that it is a good school, with most of the teachers being extremely well educated. There is also a large group of atheists at our school, and extremely liberal Christians, so I don't live in a hostile territory. Half of the kids in my school are from foreign countries, so there is a lot of diversity, and virtually no discrimination of any kind.

Which was why I was so surprised when I heard that reply from her. I'm sure that she is misinformed...I hope. Then again, last year, she proved herself to be a Christian idiot of the worst form, so I guess that could be it too. She's considered to be one of the stupider of the teachers in our school. Most don't pay attention to her, so I guess it won't be too bad. Our required courses include TOK, so at least we're taught critical thinking right along with her idiocy, so hopefully SOME kids will figure it out before long.

She can be a nice person though, which is why I was so mad. I felt betrayed, like someone I trusted had turned around and bit me.

Thanks though. I'll love for more links and sources.

Harumi

crazyfingers

Harumi,

Your teracher need remedial education in Government.

Here is some ammo. You'll find more here if you poke around.

<a href="http://www.postfun.com/worbois.html" target="_blank">Faith of founding Fathers</a>

<a href="http://www.ffrf.org/nontracts/xian.html" target="_blank">Is America a xian nation?</a>

<a href="http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/extra/founding-fathers.html" target="_blank">Founding Fathers Quotes</a>

<a href="http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/jefferson/quotations/jeffcont.htm" target="_blank">Thomas Jefferson on Politics & Government</a>

<a href="http://www.au.org/myths.htm" target="_blank">Myths</a>

<a href="http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/farrell_till/myth.html" target="_blank">Xian nation myth</a>

As your teacher if she would like to see various Islamic or Hindu Passeges on the wall.

lpetrich

I suggest that you read both the Ten Commandments and the US Constitution. Many people don't seem to have read either of them; by reading them, you will acquire much greater knowledge than what the large majority of people seem to have.

There are actually three versions of the 10C's in the Bible, and each of them is followed by a variety of other laws:

Exodus 20:1-17 (such nice precepts as don't make statues or pictures of anything, don't work every seventh day, etc.)

Deuteronomy 5:6-21 (a repeat; "don't worship any god but me" as opposed do "don't worship any god in preference to me")

Exodus 34:10-26 (a different version; do not cook a baby goat in its mother's milk, etc.)

Among the other laws in the Bible, my favorite is Exodus 20:26, which states that one must not climb upon an altar, because one would expose oneself to it if one did (the writers of the Bible were not known for wearing pants; we are also told that the High Priest must wear some special undies in the Holy of Holies, for that very reason).

Compare the <a href="http://memory.loc.gov/const/const.html" target="_blank">US Constitution</a>.

There is absolutely nothing in common. In fact, the Constitution attributes its authority to "we, the people", and not to God. In fact, no deities are mentioned anywhere in that document. By contrast, the only Biblical theory of government is the Divine Right of Kings, which meant that the American Revolutionaries had no right to revolt against King George III, and that Queen Elizabeth II is the US's legitimate ruler.

Furthermore, the Bible is devoid of regularly-elected leaders, and it does not feature anything like the two houses of Congress. In fact, the Senate gets its name from ancient Rome, which had never heard of the Bible.

You might want to check out the <a href="http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/theism/christianity/errancy.html" target="_blank">Biblical Errancy</a> section for more fun things in the Bible.

Grumpy

More properly, most of the founders were Christians, and some of them were Deists. No need to exaggerate. The fact is that the framers of the Constitution did not intend to construct a Christian paradise; if they did, they could have done a lot better.

Daggah

Ask her if she's familiar with John Locke and Thomas Paine. Grab a copy of The Age of Reason and tell her to read it.

Doug Schiffer

I think that if the US Constitution were really based on the 10 Commandments, we would not have the bill of Rights, but rather the "Bill of Obligations", and they would go something like this:

1) All citizens of the United States will worship the God of the bible. Those failing to do so will be put to death. Congress will pass no law that interferes with this mandated worship of Jehovah.

2) All citizens of the United States will attend a Christian church on Sunday, which is the official Sabbath Day of the United States. Any citizen who does not comply with this Sabbath observance will be put to death. Congress will pass no law that interfers with this mandated Sabbath.

3) Any citizen who takes the name of the Lord in Vain will be put to death. Congress will pass no law that allows taking the name of the Lord in vain.

And so forth - this is what a REAL 10 commandments based constitution would look like. It would make us very much like the godly government until recently in vouge in Afghanistan.