Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Seatless Bike · 11-17-2002, 08:54 PM

We've been inundated with images of Jesus. I've seen myriad artist's renditions of [the Christian] God's holy likeness (beard and all). But I honest to Jebus, have not seen the Islamist portrait of Allah. Is there one? I ask this not in jest, but in the quest to find a general consensus "Allah" visage.
Any help would be greatly appreciated. Donke in advance.

Doubting Didymus · 11-17-2002, 09:01 PM

Possibly Islam is a bit tougher on the 'thou shalt make no graven images of anything that is in the heavens' thing.

Thats: tougher with a rock.

Just a guess.

Heathen Dawn · 11-17-2002, 10:03 PM

Even Muhammad gets his face veiled in the Ottoman scene-drawings. As for Allah, you get "rays of light" likeness for Him.

Muslims aren't supposed to draw Allah's creations (that is men or beasts). Plants are a different matter. Beats me why.

11-17-2002, 10:28 PM

Drawing, I'm not very sure, but making statues are definately unacceptable (Haram as it is called those who are not acceptable, Halal means acceptable). They (Muslims) say that if you make a statue (lifeless creation), in judgement day, those statues you make will come looking for you to ask for life so they could live.

So I believe that making statues (or drawing) is like trying to mimic the creator thus it is Haram.

[ November 17, 2002: Message edited by: Seraphim ]</p>

lpetrich · 11-18-2002, 03:24 PM

My guess would be that anything that can move and rapidly respond to its environment is a no-no.

Which makes one wonder if a picture of a Venus Flytrap would be OK. It's an active-trap <a href="http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/Vines/5543/captureanddigestion.htm" target="_blank">carnivorous plant</a>, one whose leaves spring shut on its prey in less than a second.

Which suggests that pictures of passive-trap carnivorous plants, like pitcher plants and sundew plants, may be OK.

And in the animal kingdom itself, some members are very passive and plantlike, notably corals. So a picture of a coral reef may be OK as long as it does not include any fish or squid or crabs or starfish or others that can move. Oysters and mussels are borderline cases, because though they are fixed in place, they actively filter seawater.

I wonder how various machines qualify. Would entrants into <a href="http://avdil.gtri.gatech.edu/AUVS/" target="_blank">autonomous-robotics competitions</a> be a no-no? They may only be as smart as insects, but if insects are no-nos, then are these vehicles also no-nos?

11-18-2002, 03:38 PM

<a href="http://www.darulnuman.com/mhikmah/kaligrafi.html" target="_blank">http://www.darulnuman.com/mhikmah/kaligrafi.html</a>

Muslims are into Calligraphy, that doesn't seems to be any problem with them.

Sakpo · 11-18-2002, 08:22 PM

Of course....Islam is an Abrahamic religion, so this thread is misplaced...

Primal · 11-19-2002, 01:48 PM

Yes, the thread is misplaced. But mainly its because in Islam any rendering of Allah or Mohhomad is a serious sin. In fact one professor of religion in Hawaii, who regularly dresses up like religious figures for his lectures, recieved nation-wide death threats for dressing up as the prophet Mohommad after his lectures came out on video. One muslim movie about Mohommad actually never shows the prophet for this reason, its all first-person from Mohommad's viewpoint. And many Muslims were ok with this,however many also thought even this went too far.

Grizzly · 11-19-2002, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sakpo:
<strong>Of course....Islam is an Abrahamic religion, so this thread is misplaced...

</strong>

It is misplaced, but it was getting some good responses, so I left it.

I typically move "Islamic" threads right to MRD, but I let this one go.

[ November 19, 2002: Message edited by: Grizzly ]</p>

Boro Nut · 11-27-2002, 03:40 AM

I once joined a sect that believed in Plodge. He looked like a sugar-cube. You wouldn't believe the number of sugar-cubes we discovered that looked just like Plodge. I left them to follow the cult of Sticklebrick, who looks like a stick. You wouldn't believe the number of twigs we came across that looked just like Sticklebrick. I was converted to Oinkism because Oink looks like a cloud. Then I went to the fair last weekend and bought some candyfloss. It looked like Oink but tasted like Plodge, and bugger me if Sticklebrick wasn't in the middle! Now I'm confused and I don't know where to turn. Can anyone point me in the direction of another naturally occurring phenomena I can delude myself with.

Boro Nut

11-17-2002, 08:54 PM	#1
Seatless Bike Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Riverside Posts: 72	Images of Allah? We've been inundated with images of Jesus. I've seen myriad artist's renditions of [the Christian] God's holy likeness (beard and all). But I honest to Jebus, have not seen the Islamist portrait of Allah. Is there one? I ask this not in jest, but in the quest to find a general consensus "Allah" visage. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Donke in advance.

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11-17-2002, 09:01 PM	#2
Doubting Didymus Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: East Coast. Australia. Posts: 5,455	Possibly Islam is a bit tougher on the 'thou shalt make no graven images of anything that is in the heavens' thing. Thats: tougher with a rock. Just a guess.

11-17-2002, 10:03 PM	#3
Heathen Dawn Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 4,656	Even Muhammad gets his face veiled in the Ottoman scene-drawings. As for Allah, you get "rays of light" likeness for Him. Muslims aren't supposed to draw Allah's creations (that is men or beasts). Plants are a different matter. Beats me why.

11-17-2002, 10:28 PM	#4
Seraphim Guest Posts: n/a	Drawing, I'm not very sure, but making statues are definately unacceptable (Haram as it is called those who are not acceptable, Halal means acceptable). They (Muslims) say that if you make a statue (lifeless creation), in judgement day, those statues you make will come looking for you to ask for life so they could live. So I believe that making statues (or drawing) is like trying to mimic the creator thus it is Haram. [ November 17, 2002: Message edited by: Seraphim ]</p>

11-18-2002, 03:24 PM	#5
lpetrich Contributor Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Lebanon, OR, USA Posts: 16,829	My guess would be that anything that can move and rapidly respond to its environment is a no-no. Which makes one wonder if a picture of a Venus Flytrap would be OK. It's an active-trap <a href="http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/Vines/5543/captureanddigestion.htm" target="_blank">carnivorous plant</a>, one whose leaves spring shut on its prey in less than a second. Which suggests that pictures of passive-trap carnivorous plants, like pitcher plants and sundew plants, may be OK. And in the animal kingdom itself, some members are very passive and plantlike, notably corals. So a picture of a coral reef may be OK as long as it does not include any fish or squid or crabs or starfish or others that can move. Oysters and mussels are borderline cases, because though they are fixed in place, they actively filter seawater. I wonder how various machines qualify. Would entrants into <a href="http://avdil.gtri.gatech.edu/AUVS/" target="_blank">autonomous-robotics competitions</a> be a no-no? They may only be as smart as insects, but if insects are no-nos, then are these vehicles also no-nos?

11-18-2002, 03:38 PM	#6
Seraphim Guest Posts: n/a	<a href="http://www.darulnuman.com/mhikmah/kaligrafi.html" target="_blank">http://www.darulnuman.com/mhikmah/kaligrafi.html</a> Muslims are into Calligraphy, that doesn't seems to be any problem with them.

11-18-2002, 08:22 PM	#7
Sakpo Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Pacific Northwest (illegally occupied indigenous l Posts: 7,716	Of course....Islam is an Abrahamic religion, so this thread is misplaced...

11-19-2002, 01:48 PM	#8
Primal Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Marcos Posts: 551	Yes, the thread is misplaced. But mainly its because in Islam any rendering of Allah or Mohhomad is a serious sin. In fact one professor of religion in Hawaii, who regularly dresses up like religious figures for his lectures, recieved nation-wide death threats for dressing up as the prophet Mohommad after his lectures came out on video. One muslim movie about Mohommad actually never shows the prophet for this reason, its all first-person from Mohommad's viewpoint. And many Muslims were ok with this,however many also thought even this went too far.

11-27-2002, 03:40 AM	#10
Boro Nut Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Middlesbrough, England Posts: 3,909	I once joined a sect that believed in Plodge. He looked like a sugar-cube. You wouldn't believe the number of sugar-cubes we discovered that looked just like Plodge. I left them to follow the cult of Sticklebrick, who looks like a stick. You wouldn't believe the number of twigs we came across that looked just like Sticklebrick. I was converted to Oinkism because Oink looks like a cloud. Then I went to the fair last weekend and bought some candyfloss. It looked like Oink but tasted like Plodge, and bugger me if Sticklebrick wasn't in the middle! Now I'm confused and I don't know where to turn. Can anyone point me in the direction of another naturally occurring phenomena I can delude myself with. Boro Nut

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