Freethought & Rationalism Archive

GaryP · 12-22-2002, 10:37 AM

This was not some off-hand or personal remark he made in a conversation.

It is an official announcement made as president.

Besides, the constitution says " respecting the establishment..". This could, I think, be construed as 'respecting'.

fromtheright · 12-22-2002, 10:42 AM

AIF,

Having trouble having to rely on the text of the Constitution? I guess it's a good thing we haven't always relied on SCOTUS to tell us what the Constitution means, else we might be stuck with Dred Scott and Plessy, huh? Or were they right there too? And the last I heard, the Hallowed Nine haven't proscribed Presidents making such speeches.

Shadowy Man · 12-22-2002, 10:43 AM

I don't have problem with a Christian president giving a Christmas message.

What I find intriguing is if there were a Jewish president, would he still give a Christmas message?

12-22-2002, 11:11 AM

FTR, many of the Supreme Court justices who made those atrocious decisions (Scott, Plessy etc.) were True Christians like you who were just following the bible:

Quote:

“If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing. If he came in by himself, he shall go out by himself: if he were married, then his wife shall go out with him. If his master have given him a wife, and she have born him sons or daughters; the wife and her children shall be her master’s, and he shall go out by himself. And if the servant shall plainly say, I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free: Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever” (Exodus 21:2-6).

Quote:

“And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money” (Exodus 21:20-21).

Quote:

“And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do. If she please not her master, who hath betrothed her to himself, then shall he let her be redeemed: to sell her unto a strange nation, he shall have no power, seeing he hath dealt deceitfully with her. And if he have betrothed her unto his son, he shall deal with her after the manner of daughters. If he take him another wife: her food, her raiment, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish” (Exodus 21:7-10).

Quote:

Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God” (Colossians 3:22; see also Ephesians 6:5-6). “Exhort servants to be obedient unto their own masters, and to please them well in all things; not answering again; Not purloining, but shewing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Savior in all things” (Titus 2:9-10).

Quote:

“And when the Lord thy God hath delivered [a city] into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword: But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself; and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which the Lord thy God hath given thee” (Deuteronomy 20:13-14).

Thank gawd that the filthy bible isn't the law of the land!

Mageth · 12-22-2002, 11:21 AM

He shoulda snuck a "Praise the Lord, and pass the ammunition!" into there somewhere.

fromtheright · 12-22-2002, 02:22 PM

AIF,

Was your last post supposed to somehow answer mine? The elevated and holy SCOTUS who were moments ago the oracles of truth are now despised? Is it the fact that SCOTUS has spoken to CSS that allows it to override (or at least equal to) the Constitution or is it the fact that you agree with them? For the record, I am a conservative who believes in judicial review, but that does not mean that they are always right or even most of the time.

And since you seem to know me so well, would you please define "True Christian" for the rest of the class?

[ December 22, 2002: Message edited by: fromtheright ]</p>

Viti · 12-22-2002, 02:36 PM

Quote:

His actions and his words remind us that service to others is central to our lives and that sacrifice and unconditional love must guide us and inspire us to lead lives of compassion, mercy and justice.

...Unless you are a damn Iraqi, then we need to blow your ass off the planet because we can't seem to get rid of your President. Is that what you mean Mr. President?

Moronic Asshole

Melusina · 12-22-2002, 02:55 PM

"...compassion, mercy, and justice."

Such as...

<a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/2589317.stm" target="_blank">http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/2589317.stm</a>

Or even...

<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Immigration-Arrests.html" target="_blank">http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Immigration-Arrests.html</a>

Yeah, silent night and all that crap.

pug846 · 12-22-2002, 03:37 PM

I�m not sure I see the problem with a Christian President sending out Christmas greetings to those of his constituents who celebrate Christmas. Last time I checked, the President was allowed to hold opinions on religious matters.

fromtheright · 12-22-2002, 03:46 PM

pug,

I know we've disagreed (strongly as I recall) before, but we might actually agree on this one.

FTR

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12-22-2002, 10:37 AM	#11
GaryP Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Lancaster, OH Posts: 1,792	This was not some off-hand or personal remark he made in a conversation. It is an official announcement made as president. Besides, the constitution says " respecting the establishment..". This could, I think, be construed as 'respecting'.

12-22-2002, 10:42 AM	#12
fromtheright Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Huntsville, AL Posts: 633	AIF, Having trouble having to rely on the text of the Constitution? I guess it's a good thing we haven't always relied on SCOTUS to tell us what the Constitution means, else we might be stuck with Dred Scott and Plessy, huh? Or were they right there too? And the last I heard, the Hallowed Nine haven't proscribed Presidents making such speeches.

12-22-2002, 10:43 AM	#13
Shadowy Man Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A Shadowy Planet Posts: 7,585	I don't have problem with a Christian president giving a Christmas message. What I find intriguing is if there were a Jewish president, would he still give a Christmas message?

12-22-2002, 11:21 AM	#15
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	He shoulda snuck a "Praise the Lord, and pass the ammunition!" into there somewhere.

12-22-2002, 02:22 PM	#16
fromtheright Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Huntsville, AL Posts: 633	AIF, Was your last post supposed to somehow answer mine? The elevated and holy SCOTUS who were moments ago the oracles of truth are now despised? Is it the fact that SCOTUS has spoken to CSS that allows it to override (or at least equal to) the Constitution or is it the fact that you agree with them? For the record, I am a conservative who believes in judicial review, but that does not mean that they are always right or even most of the time. And since you seem to know me so well, would you please define "True Christian" for the rest of the class? [ December 22, 2002: Message edited by: fromtheright ]</p>

12-22-2002, 02:55 PM	#18
Melusina Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: over mommy and daddy's garage like all unemployed slobs Posts: 17	"...compassion, mercy, and justice." Such as... <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/2589317.stm" target="_blank">http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/2589317.stm</a> Or even... <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Immigration-Arrests.html" target="_blank">http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Immigration-Arrests.html</a> Yeah, silent night and all that crap.

12-22-2002, 03:37 PM	#19
pug846 Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Somewhere Posts: 1,587	I�m not sure I see the problem with a Christian President sending out Christmas greetings to those of his constituents who celebrate Christmas. Last time I checked, the President was allowed to hold opinions on religious matters.

12-22-2002, 03:46 PM	#20
fromtheright Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Huntsville, AL Posts: 633	pug, I know we've disagreed (strongly as I recall) before, but we might actually agree on this one. FTR

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