Danya

It's common knowlege that honest voters were turned away at the polls because Katherine Harris and Jeb Bush hired an outside firm to gather names of criminals and even after being told that it would not be accurate were told to go ahead and do it anyway.

Do a google search and see all of the links to the story and then try to pretend it isn't true. Not only have the people responsible not been held accountable but the rolls have not been fixed as of the last election in November.

Sabine Grant

Hi Beyelzu... I think some of the anti american policies sentiment ( mostly foreign affairs) you may find is based on the ongoing claim from various US governments that all their interventions and interferences with foreign countries come from a genuine concern for the welfare of those countries.
Coming from the French analysis of US policies, I consider them to be directed mostly by personal interest rather than the " welfare " of those countries.
I would give credibility to Mandela's statements based on his knowledge of what the loss of freedom really means. It is a fact that the US conveniently did not interfere with the Apartheid at a time this man was rotting in a cell....at least not by engaging in any military actions to liberate the Bantu people from white supremacist oppression. So why that "genuine concern" to liberate the Irakis from Saddam's oppression?
Can you see how Mandela questions the expressed motivation for a military intervention in Irak?
Also to question how white supremacist propaganda is freely promoted in the Us thru organizations such as Aryan Nation without the Us government expressing some "genuine concern" for the ethnic groups targeted by such dangerous and destructive ideology.

Ron Garrett

I can't stand Bush, and I don't support his Iraq policy in the least, but personally I am tired of hearing Nagasaki and Hiroshima brought up by every third worlder with an inferiority complex. The alternative in WWII was taking three to five times the number of casualties in taking the Japanese islands with conventional forces, and after all they started it and would still control all of Asia with a militarist and racist regime if we hadn't fought back. So Nelson Mandela can kiss my American ass. You start a fight, you risk an ass-kicking. That's just how it is and we don't owe an apology for a damn thing we did in that war except the internment of Japanese Americans.

beyelzu

From your link sakpo. Unless I misunderstand the reasoning in this paragraph, it seems to say that since 31 percent of all black men cant vote in Florida because they are felons and Florida gets lists of felons from other states, they COULD be disenfranchising blacks. My bullshit ometer is going off. Anyone got some statistics on what percentage of felons bother to have their voting rights reinstated? Unless its quite high whats the point.
also from your link
Blacks are more likely to be convicted of felonies, that is why they are 4 times as likely to be disqualified.

danya
gee, democrats wouldnt have any reason to lie would they. Also which civil rights groups? Dont be naive.


Personally, I dont think that the government does anything unless it is doing so to protect its own interests.

BTW I am still opposed to the war in Iraq. I also dont like bush for religious reasons.

Tell you what, you prove some of mandela's assertions then I will attack your proofs, but I saying that he was spewing antiamerican rhetoric, does not in fact constitute a character attack, silly or otherwise.
First off, I suppose that I am an example of one of those americans?
Just because I pointed out that antiamerican rhetoric is just that, I suddenly am a yes man for my governement. whatever.

Of course my country can do wrong, I believe that it has done wrong. I think vietnam was a disgrace, I also that supporting 3rd world dictatorships was immoral. I do not think that people view other countries the way that they view the us. I dont see the same kind of attacks on them.

August Spies

Wow it will be just like Gulf war #1!

Look our goverment has zero interest in liberating Iraq. If they do now, it will only be to cover their backs when we attack.

There are a bunch of democratic opposition groups in and out of Iraq. Yet the United States has never worked with any of them, in years and years of this buisness. PLease explain to me why we would not work with democratic opposition groups if our goal has always been the liberation of the iraqi people?

Beyelzu :

sounds like you really misunderstood this link. The problem is not that felones where turned away, it is that TONS OF NON-FELONS WHO ARE BLACK WERE TURNED AWAY simply because their names were similar to real felons.

yes it does. First off this is something you have used as a weapon several times on this board. You can't dismiss someones concernes as being "anti-american." This is not an ARGUMENT. IT is rhetoric. You are implying someones claims are not sound because of a character flaw, namely they are anti-american.

Please, give an argument against what he said.

come on now B, claiming something without any shred of evidence, reasoning or facts to back you up is not proving anything. You did not POINT it out, you just claimed it.

ceb

Mandela is losing his mind. You guys are praising a bunch of nonsense...

TollHouse

I have both American and Canadian citizenship. I suppose I must hate myself.

beyelzu

read the entire thread.


I was kidding

August Spies

Toll was probably making a bit of a joke himself.

TollHouse

'Tis correct.