Gurdur

Gee, Amos, I wonder why you didn't reply to me about the Catholic Holy Inquisition in Europe (all for burning both books and people), or the Catholic destruction of South American writings, especially native religious ones.

You seem hell-bent on redefining the English language --- or did you mean by "peace" above the peace of the grave of the murder victim ?

Amos

Gurder, we don't know much about it. If we read the same book there is no argument and if we read different books on it we will just be regurgitating their arguments. Since I am not one who likes to wallow in second hand oats I just will just let you have fun by yourself.

Peace on earth as it is in heaven which now means heaven on earth. Ever heard of that?

livius drusus

But there is no cure for willfull blindness. And no excuse either.

abe smith

AMOS, a few posts prior up-there^^^^, you have done again what die-hard Believers led by the POPE always do to butter-over the FACTS of Catholic/Catholics 's murders, lies, and all those other rotten dirty acts of MEN. Like them, you have tried here to separate the humanbeings who compose your organization from THAT DAMNED PLATONIST FICTION
"THE CHURCH",
which has never existed.
Your attempt here, Amos, like all the other attempts of Catholic True Believers, to isolate that FICTION,
"THE CHURCH" from actuality ( so as to allege "ITS/HER(sic)"
everholy immaculate never-at-fault bullshitted existence apart from the members who compose "IT" and apart from their beastly actions) is NOT going to fly here at *INFIDELS*. UNH UNGH! The only "CHURCH" there is is the factual, historical collection of human beings who compose i
"IT" and have composed "IT".
SO, Brother AMOS, you can stop trying to peddle that
*FICTION* here. There IS NO ABSTRACT ENTITY "THE CHURCH".

livius drusus

His ignorance is a purposeful choice. He knows little because he doesn't want to know more. I have already posted multiple links, as has Celsus, but Amos refused even to open them because they conflicted with his tortured theology. His responses to me, Gurdur, and even to you confirm Ronin's original assessment that Church-perpretated genocide matters not one whit to Amos and what Abe so accurately called his damned platonist fiction.

Excellent post, btw, Abe.

Amos

Not willfull blindness but lack of understanding and I would argue that there is no cure for lack of understanding. It is interesting to note that education tells some of us that God is not real while many people educate themselves because they know that God is real and want the most of it. For both of these the subject of inquiry is God while neither comes to a full understanding of God and therefore education cannot be the solution to the universal quest for human understanding. To study history is evidence that we lack understanding and can therefore not be a solution.

Amos

See, what did I just tell livius, abe, you don't understand!

The church is inspired and all of its richess is a direct result of that or the gates of hell would prevail against it. Don't you see that such a profound statement cannot be claimed on egocentric eliticism? Do you think we are stupid?

What you peole don't recognize is that while it is nice to be on top of the world it also makes you the envy of the world and everybody wants to get a "kick at the can." Nothing has changed.

livius drusus

What you refuse to recognize is that it's not so nice to be the ones living in the world, suffocating underneath the asshole of the Church. If you manage to survive the murderous reek, it's not envy that makes you want to kick that can. It's a sense of justice, of appreciation for the value of lives so lustily extinguished by the Bride of Christenstein.

Amos

To help alleviate your pain the church is also below the state where she is working among the victims of social upheaval. No, not out of guilt but just because she knows that there is a lot of turbulance in her wake.

Sabine Grant

AMOS : can you understand that your faith in God needs not to be enslaved under the label of dogma and organized religion? Please reflect on that concept.

We cannot change history no matter how much we may want to deny the reality of the horrors commited under one religion or the other. Amos.. Conquistadors were catholics. They were obedient to the catholic dogma. Protestants had their share of crimes. Catholics too.

As much as you have a loyal allegiance to the Church, history demonstrates that the Church commited crimes against humanity.
That you support an idealistic image of what you would want the Church to be is one thing.... but the reality is what we are examining.