AdamWho

I have a question. I work on a military base that is over 90% civilian and like most military bases it has a chaplain. The base has no house for military personnel, so they have to live in the community. This chaplain has displays around work offering prayer books and various other religious paraphernalia.

My question is this, on a military base that is overwhelmingly civilian and where military people are not resident on the base is the chaplain over stepping his bounds? Furthermore, is the company I work for endorsing religion by allowing it?

BTW, I understand the purpose of a chaplain on a military base so you don't need to waste time explaining it to me.

Pragmatist

:boohoo:

So this chaplain goes around handing out leaflets and preaching the way of God and Christianity. Does it hurt anyone? Is anyone offended in some way? If it is the custom of military bases to have a chaplain to espouse the benefits of religion and provide a spiritual outlet, then what is different here? Just because most of the employees are not military personnel does not negate that they are working at a military base. Just because the military personnel live off base does not mean that they are not in need of the spiritual guidance that they would have recieved if stationed at another location.

The interesting question is why a country that espouses a seperation of church and state would routinely condone religious "supportiveness" in the military work environment when most non-military workplaces go out of their way to avoid it.

Even more intriguing is why this is supported in the military workplace in the same country where there are lawsuits left and right to block students in public schools from being able to pray at lunchtime in a corner of the quad, and that contemplates the constitutionality of the phrase "under God" in the mandatory morning pledge of allegiance recitation.

Toto

Previous thread on military chaplains.

If you accept that the military can have religions chaplains, are you saying that this chaplain should not be on the base? Where should he be? Or are you just arguing that he should not be proselyzing? The above thread says that military chaplains agree not to proselyze, but that this in unenforceable (or unenforced.)

AdamWho

Toto

That is part of the question. If the workplace was 100% civilian then it would be inappropriate for there to be a chaplain (unless the work was specifically religious in nature). The reason there are chaplains on bases is because (religious) military people cannot easily establish ties in the community and need an outlet to their religious beliefs. However, on this base all the military personel live in the community (hence they have ties to the community). Futhermore, the base is overwhelmingly civilian, so when do you draw the line? If there is one military person then is a chaplain required?

This question misses the point. He should be on a base where he is needed, where there are military personel who are stuck living on base and need spiritual guidance.
I am not arguing any point, I am asking a question.
I cannot speak to other peoples experince with chaplains only my own. It seems irrelevant that other chaplains pledged other things.

Pragmatist
Welcome, you seem to have missed the point though...
No unless you think that a work place should be free from such influences. In that sense it harms all people who value freedom from government endorsement of religion.
Irrelevant. The test for endorsement of religion has nothing to do if someone is offended. Besides, that was not the question I asked.
The difference is that the personnel have access to off base religious services, if fact, they must live and attend services off base. Second, there is an overwhelming civilian population on the base. What would a SUN employee say if the company had a protestant minister passing out prayer books?
To make this statement, you must clearly not be an American or understand American culture. Americans regardless of the hype you see about the "under God" issue are extremely religious. The military especially has a long history of being associated with religion.
How long have you been at Stanford? (Now I am assuming that you are a foriegn student at Stanford)

AdamWho

What I am looking for is legal precedent or military regulations that will give me leverage to stop the proselyzing. Other then that, a little advice or support would be nice, this is after all the secular activism page.

Toto

My impression from that thread was that all military chaplains, as a condition of their appointment, agree not to proselytize.

What branch of the service is this base a part of?

If you go through that thread, Rev. Joshua, who posts on these boards occasionally, says that the code of ethics for military chaplains requires no proselytizing. The original poster (who doesn't seem to be around any more) cites several Air Force directives on chaplains.

There are a number of military and ex-military people on the boards here. I expect some will chime in.

AdamWho

Toto
I looked through the thread and it was helpful.
The branch in question is the Airforce. I was in the military too but I never useed any of the chaplain services, they seems to operate like counselors for the most part, not preachy at all.

I think that I am just going to go talk to this guy (the chaplain) or write him a letter.

Pragmatist

AdamWho,

I don't see your point. Personnel at other bases have access to off base religious services and often live and attend services off base. Why is this different? Just the percentage of the civilian population? Why should that matter? Unlike SUN, this is a military base that people are working at. Why would you expect it to behave any differently than any other military base?

If Toto is right and chaplains are specifically not supposed to proselytize, could you complain to the guy about the impact of his leaflets? Would you have any reason to believe that he might change his behavior?

ohwilleke

Your point is a good one. Chaplins justification flows from the compulsory nature of military life. Soldiers don't get to invite outsiders into their foxholes or ships or planes so the only way they can have access to religious leadership, which is essentially to many religions, is with the bosses permission. Chaplins for soldiers in these extreme instances, are basically a free exercise issue (ditto for prisons).

The issue of whether chaplins are valid on a 90% civilian base would depend on what happens to the 10% military population in the event of war. If the chaplins ship out with them, then they are probably permissible. If they stay at the base, there is a good argument against them.

AdamWho

Pragmatist

The difference is that great number of military people DO NOT have access to off base religious services, especially more junior enlisted people. As pointed out by ohwilleke, many military units (ships for instance) have no possibility of access to civilian religious services.
Yes, what is the threshold? When does a government facility cease being a military base and just become an office building? At 90% civilian? At 99%?
Because civilian work places don't have chaplains and just designating an office building a "military base" doesn't give an employer carte Blanc to sponsor religious activities.
Labeling a building "military base" doesn't automatically mean that there will be lots of military people working there nor does it relieve a corporation of the responsibility to have an open an inclusive workspace.

ohwilleke
On this base the military people are fixed, that is they will never deploy. So do you think there is a problem?