Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Koyaanisqatsi · 04-16-2002, 01:11 PM

ahhh...I was thinking of what happens during super nova (collapse)

babelfish · 04-17-2002, 06:51 AM

Jesus's body would neither implode nor explode, you idiots! Don't you know anything? He is up there somewhere floating around in a transfigured body!

Now, being mere mortals, we couldn't possibly grasp what this transfigured body is actually like. But if you're a believer, you may someday hope to have a similar body, free of all blemishes, perfect in every way, not crippled, disfigured, aged or even fat, and you too will be up there floating around with Jesus forever and ever! Isn't that exciting!

Godless Dave · 04-17-2002, 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Half-Life:
<strong>if you could prove a miracle, would you believe in God? </strong>

Which God? Half-life, are you aware that there are thousands or religions currently being practiced in the world, most of them claim the existence of miracles, and the evidence for any one of those religions being true is no greater or less than any of the others?

04-17-2002, 08:52 AM

Half Life: Have you ever seen a performance by a stage magician? Unless either s/he is a pretty bad magician or you are a magician yourself, I doubt that you could explain how everything was done. But would you then suppose that miracles were happening before your eyes, since you couldn't explain the mechanism?

I suspect that you would reason that stage magicians learn how to do clever tricks that deceive the eye, and you would not confuse tricks for miracles. After all, stage magicians don't normally pretend to be something else.

But there are unfortunately some people who are charlatans. They really perform tricks of the same type as those used by magicians, but they claim some sort of supernatural power is enabling them to do it. Many people are taken in by this sort of thing and think that they are really witnessing miracles. Fortunately for us, there are a few dedicated sceptics who make it their business to expose this sort of trickery. Some of it is perpetrated by religious followers and priests "to increase faith".

Of course, I am not saying that it is impossible that a genuine miracle could ever occur. But given how much sheer dishonesty is associated with this area, it is safer to remain sceptical until convincing proof is produced. As someone wrote above, it would be more convincing if the occurrence were something that couldn't be faked. How about a clearly decomposed body being found and then before everyone's eyes and in full light gradually resuming its previous form and being restored to life?

Koyaanisqatsi · 04-17-2002, 09:24 AM

Well, the most damning thing about all of this is that he never saw the body, does not know anything about the people who either opened or sealed the casket and is accepting a random interpretation of what four fingers bent upwards means, all on hearsay.

But, putting that aside, I was wondering if you'd like to purchase a bridge that recently came into my possession due to the September 11th tragedy? You're obviously an intelligent, reasoned man so I won't bore you with the details; suffice it to say that this is a once in a lifetime deal and I have all the certificates of authenticity you need to prove my claim. $10,000 and it's yours.

Half-Life · 04-19-2002, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Koyaanisqatsi:
<strong>Well, the most damning thing about all of this is that he never saw the body, does not know anything about the people who either opened or sealed the casket and is accepting a random interpretation of what four fingers bent upwards means, all on hearsay.

But, putting that aside, I was wondering if you'd like to purchase a bridge that recently came into my possession due to the September 11th tragedy? You're obviously an intelligent, reasoned man so I won't bore you with the details; suffice it to say that this is a once in a lifetime deal and I have all the certificates of authenticity you need to prove my claim. $10,000 and it's yours.</strong>

I do not desire to have a bridge.

Proxima Centauri · 04-24-2002, 10:09 AM

We have a religion class in my school and my teacher always talks about miracles so I like to hear what the atheists have to say about them, and then I tell my teacher to try and spark a debate. It's pretty fun.

Well, in this video we were watching, it mentioned a miracle today about St. Celia. It said that her body was incorrupt when they opened the coffin 400 years later and one of her fingers on one hand was pointed in the air like the number one, which means one God. Her other hand had 3 fingers pointing up which meant, Father, Son, Holy Ghost. I was just curious as to what you thought about this. According to me, even though I am a Christian, it could be a big coincidence or the way they buried her, but I'm not totally sure. Thank you very much.

Rod[/QB][/QUOTE]

Well you look intelligent and a lot politer than some, like Koyaanisqatsi.

If you want to know claims about miracles and the paranormal which are not very clever try this website.
<a href="http://www.csicop.org/cgi-bin/search/search.cgi?q=miracle#csicop-si." target="_blank">http://www.csicop.org/cgi-bin/search/search.cgi?q=miracle#csicop-si.</a>
If you are really good at thinking you won't believe everything you are told. You will try to work out for yourself what's true.

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04-16-2002, 01:11 PM	#51
Koyaanisqatsi Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Yes, I have dyslexia. Sue me. Posts: 6,508	ahhh...I was thinking of what happens during super nova (collapse)

04-17-2002, 06:51 AM	#52
babelfish Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Augusta, Maine, USA Posts: 2,046	Jesus's body would neither implode nor explode, you idiots! Don't you know anything? He is up there somewhere floating around in a transfigured body! Now, being mere mortals, we couldn't possibly grasp what this transfigured body is actually like. But if you're a believer, you may someday hope to have a similar body, free of all blemishes, perfect in every way, not crippled, disfigured, aged or even fat, and you too will be up there floating around with Jesus forever and ever! Isn't that exciting!

04-17-2002, 08:52 AM	#54
DMB Guest Posts: n/a	Half Life: Have you ever seen a performance by a stage magician? Unless either s/he is a pretty bad magician or you are a magician yourself, I doubt that you could explain how everything was done. But would you then suppose that miracles were happening before your eyes, since you couldn't explain the mechanism? I suspect that you would reason that stage magicians learn how to do clever tricks that deceive the eye, and you would not confuse tricks for miracles. After all, stage magicians don't normally pretend to be something else. But there are unfortunately some people who are charlatans. They really perform tricks of the same type as those used by magicians, but they claim some sort of supernatural power is enabling them to do it. Many people are taken in by this sort of thing and think that they are really witnessing miracles. Fortunately for us, there are a few dedicated sceptics who make it their business to expose this sort of trickery. Some of it is perpetrated by religious followers and priests "to increase faith". Of course, I am not saying that it is impossible that a genuine miracle could ever occur. But given how much sheer dishonesty is associated with this area, it is safer to remain sceptical until convincing proof is produced. As someone wrote above, it would be more convincing if the occurrence were something that couldn't be faked. How about a clearly decomposed body being found and then before everyone's eyes and in full light gradually resuming its previous form and being restored to life?

04-17-2002, 09:24 AM	#55
Koyaanisqatsi Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Yes, I have dyslexia. Sue me. Posts: 6,508	Well, the most damning thing about all of this is that he never saw the body, does not know anything about the people who either opened or sealed the casket and is accepting a random interpretation of what four fingers bent upwards means, all on hearsay. But, putting that aside, I was wondering if you'd like to purchase a bridge that recently came into my possession due to the September 11th tragedy? You're obviously an intelligent, reasoned man so I won't bore you with the details; suffice it to say that this is a once in a lifetime deal and I have all the certificates of authenticity you need to prove my claim. $10,000 and it's yours.

04-24-2002, 10:09 AM	#57
Proxima Centauri Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: England, the EU. Posts: 2,403	We have a religion class in my school and my teacher always talks about miracles so I like to hear what the atheists have to say about them, and then I tell my teacher to try and spark a debate. It's pretty fun. Well, in this video we were watching, it mentioned a miracle today about St. Celia. It said that her body was incorrupt when they opened the coffin 400 years later and one of her fingers on one hand was pointed in the air like the number one, which means one God. Her other hand had 3 fingers pointing up which meant, Father, Son, Holy Ghost. I was just curious as to what you thought about this. According to me, even though I am a Christian, it could be a big coincidence or the way they buried her, but I'm not totally sure. Thank you very much. Rod[/QB][/QUOTE] Well you look intelligent and a lot politer than some, like Koyaanisqatsi. If you want to know claims about miracles and the paranormal which are not very clever try this website. <a href="http://www.csicop.org/cgi-bin/search/search.cgi?q=miracle#csicop-si." target="_blank">http://www.csicop.org/cgi-bin/search/search.cgi?q=miracle#csicop-si.</a> If you are really good at thinking you won't believe everything you are told. You will try to work out for yourself what's true.

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