Joe Nobody

How do the theists here account for the existence of natural evil?

Pointing out the fall does not seem to hold any weight to me. Natural evil (hurricanes, meteorite impacts, death, suffering etc) was all here long ago. The dinosuars were wiped out by a natural evil. Humans today, likewise, are killed by hurricanes, floods, blizzards, lightning strikes, diseases, famines, droughts etc.

These are all part of God's created world that is called "good" in the creation myth.

Even if the fall is the reason, why do babies today have to die from natural disasters because Eve and Adam disobeyed God? That obviously stinks of unfairness. I think Pauls answer was almost: "Yes that is not fair to us but God was more than fair to us on the cross so its okay." I'll look up the passage if need be.

Moral-ethical evil can be accounted for by theists easily IMO. Natural evil proves difficult to justify.

4 solutions I've seen:

1. I don't know

2. God's ways are above our ways

3. Boyd's Spiritual Warfare view

4. The air that allows us to breathe must be thin enough to allow us to fall through.

So, how do you account for natural evil?

Joe Nobody

Joe Nobody

I see there is a thread similar to this. I just read it. I'd go there but that thread is more general than this. I think it asks about suffering of the righteous in general (natural and moral-ethical evil). I am specifically interested in natural evil here.

Joe Nobody

Ron Singh

Shit happens. If a flood happens, It's because maybe there's a lot of rain going on. End of Story. I don't need to complicate it because God has some sort of plan to teach me something. Shit HAppens. Period.
My theistic point of view.

Joe Nobody

Obviously rain is a neccessary part of our existence and floods are caused by an abundance of rain, poor drainage, location etc. I realize that stuff happens but I am wondering how mass death from natural phenomena fit in various theistic pictures.

Do you believe God had to create the world this way? If answering this involves complicating the issue for you feel free to ignore the question.

Thanks for your input.

Joe Nobody

Veil of Fire

"How do the theists here account for the existence of natural evil?"

Nature is neither good nor evil. Or, more precisely, it encompasses a complex balance of both good and evil. And since nature in and of itself consists of various manifestations of the Divinity, the overarching All/Divine must also have both infinite good and infinite evil in its nature.

Although I sincerely believe that our nomenclature sucks. "Good" and "evil" are merely defined as "good for humans in general" and "bad for humans in general". I'd be willing to bet that Longleaf Pines wouldn't classify lightning or forest fires as "evil in nature". But I could go on for pages and pages about THAT.

Answerer

Well, I think that most theists will agree that Satan is the one who is doing all the 'Evil' in the world instead of their God.

Veil of Fire

All Christians are theists.

Not all theists are Christian.

Ron Singh

You read my mind, Veilf of Fire. Bien fait.

Satan Oscillate My Metallic Sonatas

Joe,
I think a mixup happens with the terminology you use....'natural evil'. Many (myself included) consider this to be an oxymoron. Most people consider evil to have a certain amount of intent behind it...something a completely mechanical process of nature doesn't afford.

I believe it's more accurate to replace 'natural evil' with 'human suffering'. 'Why does God allow human suffering when he could stop it?' is a more reasonable question.

However, this is where the question becomes more complex than the answer. What do you mean by 'suffering'? Sometimes suffering is good (discipline, excersize, diet, etc). Sometimes suffering is warranted (punishment for some heinous crime).

Then the question of what specific suffering God should stop arises. If He stops this suffering over here...why not that suffering over there as well? Why doesn't he stop me from stubbing my toe or getting indigestion?


Then the question of what role man has in his own suffering comes into play. If someone closes their eyes and blindly walks into oncoming traffic...should they suffer? Could they have used their free will to avoid this catastophe? What is man's responsibility in avoiding his personal suffering?


Big questions. All of which indicate that the answer to th problem of suffering is not as simple as God universally causing all suffering to stop.


Thoughts and comments welcomed,

Satan Oscillate My Metallic Sonatas

Silent Dave

Not at all. "Why does God allow natural evil to occur" is a perfectly reasonable question. It's just that it's a much easier one for the Christian to answer. God created it, Satan created it, human free will, etc.

The problem of human suffering is more damaging to Christian theism. But to get even further to the root of the problem, the question is why God allows human suffering to exist . . . the question is why God allows so much of it.


Dave