Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Demosthenes · 12-28-2002, 01:06 PM

Ok, if there are things undetectable by science, then we can't ever see them, because otherwise they would be detectable to science, so since they're undetectable, then why do we have to care about them? They can't affect us and they certainly isn't going to affect the universe, so we're better off leaving them out of the equation.

All we know about is that there arer gravitational influences on cosmological strutures that cannot be accounted for by the visible, luminious matter. Since we can't currently detect whatever is it via EM waves, the best thing we've come up with is the postulated dark matter. Maybe it something else entirely, as some theory have suggested that it may be nothing more than gravity pull of ordinary matter in alternative universes crossing into our universe. It's just pure speculation of course, but it doesn't mean we can just recourse to supernatural explanation whenever we feel like it.

And it would be nice if you'd provide a direct link to your book, the one you posted only leads to a domain hosting site.

Shake · 12-28-2002, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by High Ideologue
Would any atheists be willing to concede that the theory that our universe is composed in large part of so called dark matter and dark energy leaves open the possibility that a divine eternal essence to self and world might also exist undetected by science.

I would concede that the Universe is composed in a large part by dark matter, but I must say that matter + energy does not necessarily equal any sort of 'essence' divine or otherwise. So, basically, I'll say NO.

High Ideologue · 12-28-2002, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Demosthenes

And it would be nice if you'd provide a direct link to your book, the one you posted only leads to a domain hosting site.

Here is a direct link

http://4iam.tripod.com

High Ideologue · 12-28-2002, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Peregrine
I actually view it as the opposite. If a g*d does exist, then he used dark matter to correct a poor original design. Not very g*d-like.

Who said anything about g*d?

High Ideologue · 12-28-2002, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shake
I would concede that the Universe is composed in a large part by dark matter, but I must say that matter + energy does not necessarily equal any sort of 'essence' divine or otherwise. So, basically, I'll say NO.

What about matter plus energy plus 'essence' divine?

High Ideologue · 12-28-2002, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jayjay
Yes, but let us not forget the possibility of pink, transparent single-horned horselike creatures existing undetected by science as well.

Anyway, what does "self" have to do with dark matter? That is over there, we are over here... unless it is the denseness of the religionists that keeps galaxies together.

Alright, why take an atheistic position? Why not take an agnostic position?

High Ideologue · 12-28-2002, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rousseau_CHN
Your reasoning is a classic case of an 'appeal to ignorance.'
Not because I don't know doesn't mean it exists.

I never said 'it' does exist.

Quote:

It only means we should try harder to discover the truth behind 'dark matters' and what else. To claim supernatural explanation to things unknown is simply indolence.

I never made such a claim.

Quote:

We have progressed through the years, let's not return to time where unknown can simply be brushed off as "handiworks of God."

Even if we wanted to I don't think we could return to such a time. I have not suggested that we should.

wade-w · 12-28-2002, 03:12 PM

Ever hear of Occam's Razor?

High Ideologue · 12-28-2002, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wade-w
Ever hear of Occam's Razor?

Yes I discuss Occam's Razor in Chapter 44 of the House of Ideology Manifesto located @ http://4iam.tripod.com

The Naked Mage · 12-28-2002, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Would any atheists be willing to agree that if it were possible for things that were intangible and undetectable by any known means to affect or impact the universe in any tangible and detectable way, and if basically everything in the universe was different than it is now, that an entity, likely of the Middle Eastern sand genie variety, might hypothetically exist under our noses, metaphorically speaking, and somehow be able to exert enough influence to be called a deity? Pretty please?

When it comes down to THIS, ya know that the theists are in some pretty deep shit.

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12-28-2002, 01:06 PM	#11
Demosthenes Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: a speck of dirt Posts: 2,510	Ok, if there are things undetectable by science, then we can't ever see them, because otherwise they would be detectable to science, so since they're undetectable, then why do we have to care about them? They can't affect us and they certainly isn't going to affect the universe, so we're better off leaving them out of the equation. All we know about is that there arer gravitational influences on cosmological strutures that cannot be accounted for by the visible, luminious matter. Since we can't currently detect whatever is it via EM waves, the best thing we've come up with is the postulated dark matter. Maybe it something else entirely, as some theory have suggested that it may be nothing more than gravity pull of ordinary matter in alternative universes crossing into our universe. It's just pure speculation of course, but it doesn't mean we can just recourse to supernatural explanation whenever we feel like it. And it would be nice if you'd provide a direct link to your book, the one you posted only leads to a domain hosting site.

12-28-2002, 03:12 PM	#18
wade-w Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Silver City, New Mexico Posts: 1,872	Ever hear of Occam's Razor?

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