Seraphim

I just finished my lunch just now and went around window shopping. That's went I have notice a Hamster on a window display in one of the shops.

The Hamster was on an exercise wheel, and it was running around like there was no tomorrow. I looked at it and smile, and my mind was just wondering on it's own. Maybe it was because I was thinking about some things both from a Theist forum and this forum that my mind just went floating by.

I said to myself, "Where are you running so fast? No matter how fast you run, you won't run out of that wheel."

That's when it hit me ... I saw the Wheel like that of a human body and this hamster looked like a person's consciousness. It was running and running, fueled by its own sense, emotions and attachment on the same wheel over and over again, and despite of the great distance it must have travelled ... the truth was, it didn't go anywhere.

The truth was ... no matter who you are ... whether you are an Theist or an Atheist, we all the same. We have the SAME emotions, the SAME attachments and the SAME sense and due to that, we are all like hamsters in an exercise wheel ... running over and over again in the same world.

You don't change from Humanity to something different just because you're an Atheist or an Theist ... you will always be a Human Being.

PS : forgive me if I offended some people ... just speaking out my mind.

Aquila ka Hecate

Seraphim, HI.
I dunno about you , mate, but I doubt if I have the same emotions, attachments etc as everyone else.

I very much doubt that we are all as much alike as that.
However I can't prove it.
But then, neither can you.

Or can you?

Seraphim

by Aquila ka Hecate

I dunno about you , mate, but I doubt if I have the same emotions, attachments etc as everyone else.

I very much doubt that we are all as much alike as that.
However I can't prove it.
But then, neither can you.

Or can you?

I believe I can by series of questions.

If someone comes to you and suddenly, for no apparent reason, slaps you across the face, what do you feel?

Shock? Anger? Surprise?

My bet is ... all three and finally the urge to ask him or her why he or she did that.

Repeat the same experiment with another total strange and he or she will feel the same, only difference will be the way they reacts.

Weak-minded person could fall down and cry from the shock.
Those who have anger to begin with, will react violently with his or her own strikes.
Those who have patience will seek your explaination first before anything else.

But all remains is the same thread is Surprise for the initial attack and the need find out the reason for such attack.

Why don't you tell me a situation where a person might reacts differently and I will see if I can tell you what possible outcome (at least by emotions) from that situation.

One more question ... WHY do you think you have different sense, attachments etc from everyone else?

Aquila ka Hecate

hmm, think I'll answer this one first:

this is because emotions are controlled by electrochemical impulses in your brain arising from chemical flows in your body and/or brain.
Although in theory this can be measured, it isn't done for every person all the time.
I have no idea wether I will react with shock or anger if someone slaps me across the face-in all probability I will, but there is a chance I would react with joy.Perhaps I'm a masochist.

Secondly, these physical occurances causing the emotions are compounded and understood by each person's history, genetic makeup and proclivities.I don't think they're the same for everyone..but I don't know for sure.

The nearest example to hand of people's varying emotions that comes to mind is reaction to music.
Play the same piece of music to several people, you won't get the same reactions.
Some people will enjoy it, and some grumpy folk like myself will not.
Then again, some will report an emotion of nostalgia, some sadness, some happiness, etc-all on the same input.

The point is I think that we don't know enough about the brain's workings to be certain of how emotions proceed.

If we did, just think of the potential for a demagogue.
Or...maybe we do know enough about this, and the American presidency is making full use of it.
With a few dissenting oddballs like atheists mucking it up of course.

Just my few moments of paranoia on a Wednesday morning.

Seraphim

by Aquila ka Hecate

this is because emotions are controlled by electrochemical impulses in your brain arising from chemical flows in your body and/or brain.
Although in theory this can be measured, it isn't done for every person all the time.

I have no idea wether I will react with shock or anger if someone slaps me across the face-in all probability I will, but there is a chance I would react with joy.Perhaps I'm a masochist.

Well, I don't know about electrochemical and all that things, the fact remains is this :

Part of the brain which controls the emotions in the brain is same (in term of its layout), only different could be is the way one person reacts to another, which is due to his or her condition of growing up.

Everyone WILL react in shock (especially when comes to a slap from a person when you least expected) and whatever follows is depends on his or her emotional state.

Like what you said, you could be happy someone abused you, and like I said, angry person can react angrily, weak-minded person can react by crying etc.

Bottomline is this ... you will not react with something beyond that of a human emotion. You will always be in shock and any one or more secondary emotions but EMOTION WILL FOLLOW because Humans HAVE Emotions.

Secondly, these physical occurances causing the emotions are compounded and understood by each person's history, genetic makeup and proclivities.I don't think they're the same for everyone..but I don't know for sure.

Does each person's brain sends impulses differently? I don't think so.

Imagine the Brain as a motherboard of a PC. Some may be running in a Pentium 4 processor, some maybe using a Pentium 1 166 Mhz, some maybe running with a Zion processor (like those who handle servers).

Bottomline is this ... electrical impulses still flows the same way, and it does the same thing it was signed to do in any processor. Some will react fast, some slow, some with patience and some with violent anger and some, like you said may like it.
The brain and the emotions it produces remains the same just like the electrical impulse in this processors remains the same.

The nearest example to hand of people's varying emotions that comes to mind is reaction to music.
Play the same piece of music to several people, you won't get the same reactions.
Some people will enjoy it, and some grumpy folk like myself will not.
Then again, some will report an emotion of nostalgia, some sadness, some happiness, etc-all on the same input.

Varying emotions doesn't come from a person alone, it also comes from associating the music with another event.

People like myself who have very sensitive sensors (ears and nose) will find Rock Musics annoying. Why? Because it hurts my ears.

Some will feel nostalgia because the music reminds them of another event which has a special meaning to them and them alone. Same as sadness and etc.

While the music doesn't change in ears of each person, it is how a person interpreted this musics which makes the difference, which brings back to my understanding that humans are like Hamster running on a Wheel.

The point is I think that we don't know enough about the brain's workings to be certain of how emotions proceed.

It is not the brain which a person should study, it is the person's attachments which should be studied to understand emotions.

Brain is just a cardboard box which fills with junks from our pasts, and whenever we look into this junks (via music, scenes, movies or any other things which will associate us with this junks), we will have emotions related to them.

If we did, just think of the potential for a demagogue.
Or...maybe we do know enough about this, and the American presidency is making full use of it.

What's Demagogue?

It's morning in South Africa? It's almost four in the evening (Wednesday also) here.

Aquila ka Hecate

I think it may be so.Or at least use different pathways.
For example, people with brain damage can relearn to do things by using different neural pathwys in the brain.I may be an example of this. I blew out much of my brain and have learnt to use it again, sometimes more effectively.(ok and sometimes not)
I must ask someone who knows more about neurophysiology than I do.
But I think my point was that each human does interpret the same input differently,and thus I would say that they do experience different emotions.

But to get back to your hamster on a wheel analogy, I think I see what you're saying-from that distance it doesn't seem to make a difference wether the hamster is using every fifth rung or every second.Or even sleeping on the wheel.

More interesting though, is using this analogy to ask why we don't get off the wheel altogether-look at the transhumanists for example.

A demagogue is given by the Merriam-webster as :
1 : a leader who makes use of popular prejudices and false claims and promises in order to gain power

South Africa is on GMT +2 hours, so yes it's still morning here.

Seraphim

by Aquila ka Hecate

I think it may be so.Or at least use different pathways.
For example, people with brain damage can relearn to do things by using different neural pathwys in the brain.I may be an example of this. I blew out much of my brain and have learnt to use it again, sometimes more effectively.(ok and sometimes not)
I must ask someone who knows more about neurophysiology than I do.

You blew part of your what?
Yes, I agree that it is more likely that it is the different pathways that makes the different, thus everyone should have the same set of emotions but how we reach it could have been different.

But I think my point was that each human does interpret the same input differently,and thus I would say that they do experience different emotions.

Agreed. Doesn't it means that we have the same emotions except when comes to how we expressed them?

But to get back to your hamster on a wheel analogy, I think I see what you're saying-from that distance it doesn't seem to make a difference wether the hamster is using every fifth rung or every second.Or even sleeping on the wheel.

More interesting though, is using this analogy to ask why we don't get off the wheel altogether-look at the transhumanists for example.

Why we don't get down of this wheel altogether?
Simplest answer I could think of is because we are just HUMAN.

Like the way we express our emotion differently due to our background, we attend to approach a SAME problem with different approach according to our own backgrounds.

Take death for example.
Theists approach this by saying that Death is just a simple transaction from physical world to another world, thus Death is not an End.

Atheist approachs it by saying Death is the end and you will die and dissappear altogether.

Hindusm and some Buddhist could say that you will get recycled and return back to the land of living again after Death.

Different approach to the same problem. The problem here is ... the problem itself IS the wheel by which we are on. We're the Hamster who is burden with this problem and we cannot ignore it.
Can a person say something like "... it doesn't matter what happens to me ... Life and Death is the same. "?

Yes, he could thus he will step down from the wheel and ignore the question till the question (Death) actually comes. Question is WHY don't we do that?
Answer again is because too many things reminds us of this and we have too much attachments to Life to ignore it.

Demagogue is given by the Merriam-webster as :
1 : a leader who makes use of popular prejudices and false claims and promises in order to gain power

Isn't that what happens in a democratic election everywhere?

South Africa is on GMT +2 hours, so yes it's still morning here.

Here is almost 5 in the evening, time to go.

Aquila ka Hecate

That's a pity.Goodnight.

WRT getting off the wheel, I do think it's a very real possibility that someday we'll learn how to acheive this.

My grandparents lived into their 80s.My parents, through bad fortune, only to their 60s.

I on the other hand have an estimated natural lifespan of over 100-and that's not counting the technology that we'll com up with before then.

If in just 2 generations we can stretch three score years and ten into over a century, what might we not be capable of in the next?

Transhumanism is dedicated, so I beleive, to the goal of acheiving functional immortality for humans through technology.
I'll have to eucate myself a bit more about it, but I'm not against this at all!We have the power, we should use it for our betterment.(imho of course!)

whoo-whoowhoowhoo.Good one. I don't disagree.

victorialis

What is the allure of functional immortality?

Aquila ka Hecate

hmm-I guess that I'm so acustomed to being alive that I wouldn't willingly give it up but for a cause greater than myself.

By functional immortality I probably meant to say 'practical' immortality.
Little confused between work and here today.
That is, I can't imagine living for ever either-but a lot longer would be great