Freethought & Rationalism Archive

HelenM · 06-16-2003, 03:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Opera Nut
My BF is a perfect argument for sex before marriage.

He married the first girl that said she would do it with him, he was 23 and a virgin when he married, and she was a complete imbecile and frigid as well -- had no idea what sexual desire was apparently.

He said if he had it to do over again he would have dated more and had sex, so he wouldn't have to be trapped in a marriage to an idiot just feel what a girl was like.

I agree that marrying to the first woman who will have sex with you solely for that reason is not a strategy that is likely to lead to a good marriage.

Helen

alek0 · 06-16-2003, 04:25 AM

HelenM,

seems to me that you think that people who care about sexual aspect of relationship don't have the same level of commitment as those who think it is not so important. Why do you think so?
How do you quantify level of unhappiness that one partner needs to expirence before giving up to call it commited relationship?
You also seem to be ignoring what has been pointed out several times, i.e. that there can be physical problems which can't be resolved.

I would also like to know is there any reason other than religion why not to have sex before marriage? IMO you can only gain by verifying compatibility in that aspect. What can you possibly lose by having sex before marriage so that it shouldn't be done?
I hope you have better reason than possibly (if you are lucky) more exciting honeymoon.

HelenM · 06-16-2003, 05:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by alek0
HelenM,

seems to me that you think that people who care about sexual aspect of relationship don't have the same level of commitment as those who think it is not so important.

Not necessarily - it's more that some of the people who have posted on this thread haven't indicated a great deal of commitment.

Quote:

Why do you think so?
How do you quantify level of unhappiness that one partner needs to expirence before giving up to call it commited relationship?
You also seem to be ignoring what has been pointed out several times, i.e. that there can be physical problems which can't be resolved.

There will always be some things that can't be resolved in marriage. It doesn't mean two people can't be married - it doesn't even mean they can't be happily married.

Quote:

I would also like to know is there any reason other than religion why not to have sex before marriage?

Disease and pregnancy; otherwise maybe not. But just because you can do something doesn't mean you have to. Just because two people want to wait until marriage to have sex doesn't mean they are stupid.

Quote:

IMO you can only gain by verifying compatibility in that aspect. What can you possibly lose by having sex before marriage so that it shouldn't be done?
I hope you have better reason than possibly (if you are lucky) more exciting honeymoon.

I just don't think that people should tell other people what to do, or put pressure on them by implying that not having sex before marriage is a crazy idea and/or not trying out a variety of sex partners is a crazy idea. If people want to abstain for religious reasons then I think that's up to them.

Helen

scigirl · 06-16-2003, 07:11 AM

Hey seebs,

Quote:

Originally posted by seebs
The allergy case is something I've never heard of before, and frankly, it sounds like a dumbfuck stupid thing to do to ditch a relationship based on allergies.

I haven't heard of it either- I do know people who are allergic to latex though- that's gotta suck.

Quote:

We have *medicine* for allergies.

Not if it's severe enough. I think the latex allergies are pretty serious. Not sure about the above example.

Quote:

If I were given a choice between the friendship I have with my wife, and the sex, I'd take the friendship... If sexual compatibility would nix a relationship, there was no basis for a marriage anyway.

Exactly! And well, I"m glad you "lucked out." Personally, I don't want to promise to spend the rest of my life with someone that I'm not sure about. No we can't absolutely be sure of anything, but a little empirical data never hurts. I want to know if we are on the same page about children, money, careers, sex, and who gets the remote control. I'm not waiting till marriage to find out all of this information either.

Quote:

Marriage doesn't mean "license to fuck".

Are you sure about that seebs? When churches condemn premaritial sex, what other choice do devout religious people have if they do want sex? Seems to me that religious people might be marrying for the wrong reasons. I know for a fact that lots of my mormon friends got married right out of high school. Now, maybe religious folk just "happen" to find their soulmate faster than non-religious folk. But I"m skeptical - i think there's another reason.

You think we here are obsessed with sex? I disagree- I think churches cause people to become obsessed with sex. How? They discourage everything but missionary-style sex that produces offspring, yet the desires of the congregation are still there. When they don't have an outlet for those desires, I wonder what that does to ther psyche.

scigirl

Shake · 06-16-2003, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Calzaer
What happens if the male decides he just doesn't like sex all that much, and the female wants it all the time? Fights, fights, fights. Too bad; you shoulda known that before walking down the aisle. Now the woman will have to spend the rest of her life practically raping her husband while he counts the cracks in the celing.

... or vice versa (male/female desire)

... then the other thing that happens is whichever party has the greater desire may start looking outside of the relationship to fulfill the desire!

Quote:

There are times when the problem is MUCH less obvious. I've been in relationships where the sex was just not good at all. We could never figure out why. We'd try all sorts of nifty new things, but we just didn't work well together. You talk about counciling and such... that involves someone changing. Who gets to be re-shaped into the sexual partner the other person wants? Do you draw straws? Sexual personality is much like real personality, and there are cases were two personalities just simply don't match up, no matter how much discussion and compromise is made.

Yeah, there's more to it than "insert Tab A into Slot B. Repeat."

brighid · 06-16-2003, 08:16 AM

There is a condition ( I don't know the name of it) where a woman is born with a vagina that is very small and incompatible with intercourse. It can be surgically corrected. I have a friend who suffered from this. She was a virgin when she married (at age 30) but had fulfilling sexual gratification through oral and manual stimulation with her fiance for the entire course of their relationship. However, once the wedding night came and went and sex was excrutiatingly painful it began to put a serious strain on their marriage. She eventually went to her a doctor who was able to properly diagnose this problem and surgically repair it. She and her husband have been MUCH happier. I wonder if that could have been the case with one of the girls mentioned previously in this thread.

Brighid

JamesKrieger · 06-16-2003, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by HelenM

Disease and pregnancy; otherwise maybe not.

Marriage isn't a barrier to disease. Unless both people are virgins and have no sexual experience at all, waiting until marriage doesn't guarantee that both will be disease-free.

And as far as pregnancy is concerned...that's what contraceptives are for.

So, I don't buy the disease and pregnancy thing as reasons to not have sex before marriage.

brighid · 06-16-2003, 08:22 AM

Quote:

So, I don't buy the disease and pregnancy thing as reasons to not have sex before marriage.

Unless both are virgins prior to marriage and remain faithful throughout marriage. That would certainly seem to protect against STD's and pregnancy out of wedlock.

Brighid

Roland98 · 06-16-2003, 08:40 AM

Quote:

So, I don't buy the disease and pregnancy thing as reasons to not have sex before marriage.

Well, you may not buy into it, but condoms aren't 100% effective in preventing disease, and contraceptives, even when used correctly, are not 100% effective in preventing pregnancy--so I think they're great reasons to hold off on sex. And probably the main reasons any atheists wait--since we're not tied down to the dogma of any religion.

Calzaer · 06-16-2003, 08:53 AM

There's certainly less guilt involved when atheists wait. The only thing holding them back is (ironically) their own free will; their personal evaluation of risks and rewards. Not some vague threat of eternal damnation.

And once again, I'll say that the biggest problem when it comes to discussing this issue is that the people who advocate abstinence until marriage are the people who have no earthly idea what sex is really like, because they're abstaining until marriage.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

06-16-2003, 04:25 AM	#32
alek0 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 640	HelenM, seems to me that you think that people who care about sexual aspect of relationship don't have the same level of commitment as those who think it is not so important. Why do you think so? How do you quantify level of unhappiness that one partner needs to expirence before giving up to call it commited relationship? You also seem to be ignoring what has been pointed out several times, i.e. that there can be physical problems which can't be resolved. I would also like to know is there any reason other than religion why not to have sex before marriage? IMO you can only gain by verifying compatibility in that aspect. What can you possibly lose by having sex before marriage so that it shouldn't be done? I hope you have better reason than possibly (if you are lucky) more exciting honeymoon.

06-16-2003, 08:16 AM	#36
brighid Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: somewhere in the known Universe Posts: 6,993	There is a condition ( I don't know the name of it) where a woman is born with a vagina that is very small and incompatible with intercourse. It can be surgically corrected. I have a friend who suffered from this. She was a virgin when she married (at age 30) but had fulfilling sexual gratification through oral and manual stimulation with her fiance for the entire course of their relationship. However, once the wedding night came and went and sex was excrutiatingly painful it began to put a serious strain on their marriage. She eventually went to her a doctor who was able to properly diagnose this problem and surgically repair it. She and her husband have been MUCH happier. I wonder if that could have been the case with one of the girls mentioned previously in this thread. Brighid

06-16-2003, 08:53 AM	#40
Calzaer Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,762	There's certainly less guilt involved when atheists wait. The only thing holding them back is (ironically) their own free will; their personal evaluation of risks and rewards. Not some vague threat of eternal damnation. And once again, I'll say that the biggest problem when it comes to discussing this issue is that the people who advocate abstinence until marriage are the people who have no earthly idea what sex is really like, because they're abstaining until marriage.

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.