Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Darth Dane · 05-21-2003, 02:02 AM

In a Perfect world everyone would be equally; Loving, smart. intelligent, fast, strong, wise and so on. We would know everything we wanted to know, do everything we wanted to do.

In a Perfect world only the good things would exist right?
No evil or bad things would happen to everyone ever!

We couldn't improve on the world, because it is perfect, we can't improve upon perfection!

We can't create a more perfect sphere or circle than a perfect sphere or circle already Is

My question is: Would it be "fun" living in such a world?

I see three possible "worlds" One only with Good, one only with Evil, and one equally balanced between the two.

The "perfection" of our world Is that it is imperfect, we can improve upon it, grow and evovle into an even better version of our selves.

"This is the very perfection of a man, to find out his own imperfections." - St. Augustine

DD - Love Spliff

LKS_Blade · 05-21-2003, 03:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Darth Dane
In a Perfect world everyone would be equally; Loving, smart. intelligent, fast, strong, wise and so on.

All these things are relative, thus thay canot exist without variation. How can you claim to be fast if everyone else is moving at the same speed? How can you be smart of everyone knows the same? What is tall when all is the same height? While this world would be 'perfect' in terms of equality and balance, it is not nessisarily 'better' then our existing world.

Quote:

Originally posted by Darth Dane
The "perfection" of our world Is that it is imperfect, we can improve upon it, grow and evovle into an even better version of our selves.

I agree. A world of balance and equality has no room for improvement, no chance to achieve.

Darth Dane · 05-21-2003, 03:49 AM

My point is of corse, that a lot of humans believe that in heaven everything is perfect! If we were in heaven, and we now are on earth, I would suspect we wanted to be here, and God made it so!

DD - Love Spliff

Darth Dane · 05-21-2003, 06:56 AM

Does that not also depend on one's personal perspective even down to the mood of the moment?

True, so whenever you are asked about it, you answer may vary, because if you just lost the Love of your Life, Life will seem evil and less perfect, but if you have just met the Love of your Life, Life will seem Good and perfect.

So Time/Space has a deciding influence on our state of conciousness or our view on Life.

What is Life without Time?

What is Life without Space?

So the conclusion is that our world Is Perfect in it's imperfection?

Would you agree, as an overall appreciation of Life, that it tends more towards the good and perfect, than it tends to the evil and less perfect?

DD - Love Spliff

abe smith · 05-21-2003, 07:04 AM

DEFINE! "perfect". Otherwise this discussion is nonsensical.

Darth Dane · 05-21-2003, 07:11 AM

Perfect is defined by the sphere or circle, through Pi, which by our definition, not Pi's, is imperfect, because we can keep adding a new number.

However the perfect sphere or circle Is perfect, even if we can't manifest it in Reality, we can only talk about it, or manifest it, the idea of it, in our minds.

Perfect = God?

Perfect = Universe?

Perfect = Conciousness?

If not, you define perfect, and we will se how to reason our way with it.

Your way is probably more fun

DD - Love Spliff

Tom Sawyer · 05-21-2003, 07:14 AM

As LKS_Blade said, the definition of perfect needs variation in order to be a meaningful definition. At the same what, what people would view as perfect varies from person to person.

One person's view of a perfect world might involve continuous orgies, while another person's view of it may involve a sexless environment where everyone sits around praying for eternity. If you thrust either into the other's "perfect" world, they would see it as horrendously flawed. That's why I've never really understood the concept of heaven - what one person sees as paradise, another may see as hell and if we all go in there together, what's the setup? Because if people don't enjoy what's being offered, is giving them an eternity in paradise the same as condemning them to hell?

Darth Dane · 05-21-2003, 07:18 AM

One person's view of a perfect world might involve continuous orgies, while another person's view of it may involve a sexless environment where everyone sits around praying for eternity. If you thrust either into the other's "perfect" world, they would see it as horrendously flawed. That's why I've never really understood the concept of heaven - what one person sees as paradise, another may see as hell and if we all go in there together, what's the setup? Because if people don't enjoy what's being offered, is giving them an eternity in paradise the same as condemning them to hell?

Yes, but in a perfect world, all teh inhabitants would not have a different opinion as to how the world should be, it is perfect ---> Everybody "Loves" it!

See the difference, I am not trying to figure out how all of our POV would fit, I am saying If they fitted, that would be a perfect world.

DD - Love Spliff

Thomas Ash · 05-21-2003, 07:35 AM

Well, it depends how you define a perfect world. I'd sayit's one in which everyone can lead the most satisfying lives which provide them with the most happiness. It might (or might not) turn out to be a world in which room was left for self-improvement, but it would still be a 'perfect world' and not one in which there were simply roughly even amounts of good and bad as you desribe the current state of the world.

abe smith · 05-21-2003, 08:38 AM

Okay, Spliff. I read your(several) response as (euphemism>>>) not-serious; hence I won't bother .... Abe

05-21-2003, 02:02 AM	#1
Darth Dane Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Required Posts: 2,349	Would a Perfect world be fun? In a Perfect world everyone would be equally; Loving, smart. intelligent, fast, strong, wise and so on. We would know everything we wanted to know, do everything we wanted to do. In a Perfect world only the good things would exist right? No evil or bad things would happen to everyone ever! We couldn't improve on the world, because it is perfect, we can't improve upon perfection! We can't create a more perfect sphere or circle than a perfect sphere or circle already Is My question is: Would it be "fun" living in such a world? I see three possible "worlds" One only with Good, one only with Evil, and one equally balanced between the two. The "perfection" of our world Is that it is imperfect, we can improve upon it, grow and evovle into an even better version of our selves. "This is the very perfection of a man, to find out his own imperfections." - St. Augustine DD - Love Spliff

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05-21-2003, 03:49 AM	#3
Darth Dane Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Required Posts: 2,349	My point is of corse, that a lot of humans believe that in heaven everything is perfect! If we were in heaven, and we now are on earth, I would suspect we wanted to be here, and God made it so! DD - Love Spliff

05-21-2003, 06:56 AM	#4
Darth Dane Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Required Posts: 2,349	Does that not also depend on one's personal perspective even down to the mood of the moment? True, so whenever you are asked about it, you answer may vary, because if you just lost the Love of your Life, Life will seem evil and less perfect, but if you have just met the Love of your Life, Life will seem Good and perfect. So Time/Space has a deciding influence on our state of conciousness or our view on Life. What is Life without Time? What is Life without Space? So the conclusion is that our world Is Perfect in it's imperfection? Would you agree, as an overall appreciation of Life, that it tends more towards the good and perfect, than it tends to the evil and less perfect? DD - Love Spliff

05-21-2003, 07:04 AM	#5
abe smith Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: springfield, MA. USA Posts: 2,482	DEFINE! "perfect". Otherwise this discussion is nonsensical.

05-21-2003, 07:11 AM	#6
Darth Dane Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Required Posts: 2,349	Perfect is defined by the sphere or circle, through Pi, which by our definition, not Pi's, is imperfect, because we can keep adding a new number. However the perfect sphere or circle Is perfect, even if we can't manifest it in Reality, we can only talk about it, or manifest it, the idea of it, in our minds. Perfect = God? Perfect = Universe? Perfect = Conciousness? If not, you define perfect, and we will se how to reason our way with it. Your way is probably more fun DD - Love Spliff

05-21-2003, 07:14 AM	#7
Tom Sawyer Talk Freethought Staff Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Toronto, eh Posts: 42,293	As LKS_Blade said, the definition of perfect needs variation in order to be a meaningful definition. At the same what, what people would view as perfect varies from person to person. One person's view of a perfect world might involve continuous orgies, while another person's view of it may involve a sexless environment where everyone sits around praying for eternity. If you thrust either into the other's "perfect" world, they would see it as horrendously flawed. That's why I've never really understood the concept of heaven - what one person sees as paradise, another may see as hell and if we all go in there together, what's the setup? Because if people don't enjoy what's being offered, is giving them an eternity in paradise the same as condemning them to hell?

05-21-2003, 07:18 AM	#8
Darth Dane Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Required Posts: 2,349	One person's view of a perfect world might involve continuous orgies, while another person's view of it may involve a sexless environment where everyone sits around praying for eternity. If you thrust either into the other's "perfect" world, they would see it as horrendously flawed. That's why I've never really understood the concept of heaven - what one person sees as paradise, another may see as hell and if we all go in there together, what's the setup? Because if people don't enjoy what's being offered, is giving them an eternity in paradise the same as condemning them to hell? Yes, but in a perfect world, all teh inhabitants would not have a different opinion as to how the world should be, it is perfect ---> Everybody "Loves" it! See the difference, I am not trying to figure out how all of our POV would fit, I am saying If they fitted, that would be a perfect world. DD - Love Spliff

05-21-2003, 07:35 AM	#9
Thomas Ash Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 820	Well, it depends how you define a perfect world. I'd sayit's one in which everyone can lead the most satisfying lives which provide them with the most happiness. It might (or might not) turn out to be a world in which room was left for self-improvement, but it would still be a 'perfect world' and not one in which there were simply roughly even amounts of good and bad as you desribe the current state of the world.

05-21-2003, 08:38 AM	#10
abe smith Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: springfield, MA. USA Posts: 2,482	Okay, Spliff. I read your(several) response as (euphemism>>>) not-serious; hence I won't bother .... Abe

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