beastmaster

What's the point for Xns to retain the O.T. as part of their Bible? Didn't Jesus (supposedly) render the Old Testament obsolete?

Isn't the O.T. just a horrible *embarrassment* for Xnty? I know some liberal Xns like to consider all or parts of the O.T. to be metaphorical -- but why not just ditch it entirely? What value does it add to Xnty?

The O.T. is, after all, Judaism, not Xnty.

Perhaps Xns say that Jesus fulfilled the O.T., but, if so, the O.T. no longer has any relevance.

It seems that the O.T. serves at most two functions in Xnty (let me know if you see more):

(1) The O.T. is the source material for the prophesies of Christ's coming.

But why is it necessary to append the entire text of the O.T. itself? Isn't the N.T. self-sufficiently understable without directly consulting the original source material for the prophesy? [In fact, if you *do* check the original source material, it often casts doubt on the supposed prophesy as being a prophesy and in having been fulfilled].

(2) The story of Adam and Eve explains the necessity of Jesus's sacrifice.

This holds true only if you add a bunch of facts and suppositions to the A&E story that are *not* in Genesis in order to convert it into a story about Original Sin.

It seems to me that everything else in the O.T. is either embarrassing, obsolete, or irrelevant to the Xn faith. Am I missing something?

My purpose is not to bash the O.T. but to honestly discover what theological (or other) value the O.T. holds for Xns, if any.

Mageth

What's the point for Xns to retain the O.T. as part of their Bible? Didn't Jesus (supposedly) render the Old Testament obsolete?

Not according to Jesus.

cpickett

I don't know if this is a new fad, but my parents used to be Hard Core Catholic, but since I have convinced my Dad that the OT is a load of myths, they seem to have adopted a "The gospels are all you need, to be saved!" attitude.

So you get the warm and fuzzy God without all of that myth sutff.... :banghead:

But I've given up Xian bashing for lent, so I'll stop there

beastmaster

Are you talking about the Law?

Yes, I agree that Jesus said he did not come to destroy the Law but to fulfill it.

Nevertheless, a Xn doesn't need to *know* the Law to be a "good" Xn. All the Xn needs is faith and the Golden Rule (and maybe some other things according to various and sundry Xns sects). In that sense, the Law *is* obsolete because it is unnecessary to Xnty.

So why include the O.T.? Why not jettison it from Xnty?

beastmaster

Within the Xn worldview, that attitude is correct, isn't it?

It's a damnsight more sensible attitude than believing in a literal Flood or that Lot was a righteous man.

The gospels are the irreducible core of Xnty, so why not get rid of all the superfluous ancient Judaism?

cpickett

Ya, I agree and I was very impressed that they went there. It's just that instead of going the direction of questioning their religion, it fortified their belief in the gospels.

philechat

Okay. OT are for atheists.

I mean, if you really want to study the Bible as a myth or an epic, I see OT as superior literature compared to the NT (note: not to said OT is as pleasing aesthetically as The Iliad, but still it contains some poetry). Most people's exclusive focus on the NT is in my opinion of bad taste...but I guess most Xn's don't want to deconvert, so they left the morally objectionable OT behind as some, well, allegory?

jupstin

The OT is valuable to Christians in other ways than the two mentioned by Beastmaster. The Christian who believes in the inerrancy of scripture typically includes the OT in this belief. Those same Christians also typically believe that God is unchangeable, so promises made to the Jews as a people (God’s OT chosen people) or to specific Jews (David or Jeremiah) are often applicable to Christians as well. So, now we can add these passages to the story of the fall and Messianic prophecies. You could also add “last days” prophecies from Daniel, since many Christians interpret them as yet unfulfilled. There are also the Psalms, which Christians often see as a sort of model for worshiping God. Further, the Psalms, as well as other books, offer a model of how to respond to adversity. Then there’s Song of Solomon, a sort of chicken soup for the abstinent soul (maybe not…) There are some things in the NT that are more clearly understood via the OT, though I suppose that you could argue theses passages could still be understood to some degree without the OT. Of course, there are also various stories and passages that are especially comforting for certain people in certain circumstances. For example, a Christian who feels tempted to run from God’s will may relate to the story of Jonah, or a Christian who is tempted to trade his birthright for some soup may relate to the story of Jacob and Esau…

aikido7

Although Matthew's account seems to have been written in part to show Jesus as the fulfillment of the OT law, the other two synoptics show Jesus and/or his followers breaking the law on several occaisions. And since the Fourth Gospel has Jesus calling the Jews "children of the devil," maybe the irrelevancy of "their" sacred texts is highlighted even more by Christian ignorance of its canon and contents.

Boro Nut

It makes the new testament easier to find for those of us who normally only read the sports pages.

Boro Nut