Waning Moon Conrad

Amos,

My apologies but from reading your post, I really did think that you were a fundamentalist Christian.

Certainly to me at least you came across as one.

I don't blame you for not wanting to be associated with that type of Christianity.

I still disagree with just about everything you said.

The concept of mythology as social albumen is interesting and at a tribal level I think it's entirely valid. Applying it to modern nation-states and empires is taking it too far.

To impose this type of cohesion on a nation, one could not just stop at mythology, one would have to apply it to the arts. Could you stop there? Surely it would have to apply to philosophy too and then it would necessarily spill over into the sciences.

The kiss of death to social, intellectual and cultural evolution. Hellooooooo stagnation!

The philosophy of Catholicism that you believe in may have been contrary to the social cohesion promoting mythology of the Roman Empire. It would definitely be so when unseparated from its mythology. Can you divorce the two?

If you were in ancient Rome, would the fact of your being there at that time make the philosophy of Catholicism less valid to you? If so, then it's not much of a philosophy, if not then in spite of its validity, according to your own argument, you deny yourself the right to embrace it.

Amos

I am not sure if I understand your argument here but yes, if anyone can improve on Catholicsm today (not as you see it perhaps), he will be welcome to make the change. That is why tradition is part of the Church. You must realize here that it will by necessity go through the Church because its wisdom and richess towers above all other mythologies. If Buddhism shall prosper in N.America today the Church will never object to it because they are not rival religions (different mythology). This same was true then and is why Catholicism survived and prospered.

Amos

Waning Moon Conrad

Amos,

You don't believe in freedom of religion due to a lack of social cohesion if there are too many religions within one nation.

You do like Caholicism and believe in its philosophy.

You don't believe that Catholicism would object to the flourishing of Buddhism within the same nation.

I don't get it.

Amos

Social cohesion is your term and I do believe that social cohesion is good but not because religion is a social club. Just opposite and religion should not be sought as an area of entertainment. Our social cohesion must run through the communion with the saints in the fellowship of believers. In other words, is is a unity of spirit that is perceived with our soul.

Conrad I am one of those who believe that heaven is for Catholics and Jews only and that protestants significantly reduce the chance of Catholics and Jews to achieve this end.

Understand here first that heaven is a state of mind (a noetic vision), to be enjoyed while here on earth. This may not the open profession of the Catholic faith but is contained and expressed in their rituals and the mystery of salvation in Catholicism is precisely the unfolding of this mystery of faith in a person's life. Judaism, and Buddhism are also mystery religions. Protestantism is not and therefore misses the mark completely and never has or never will a protestant attain the mindset called heaven.

The question now becomes, "where do protestants go" if they claim "they are going" someplace, because I do not deny their mystical experience when they (at least some of them) received their shot of the "cup of gods wrath"--as Rev.15:10 puts it--in various degrees of his anger. The answer to that is obvious, better yet, where are they now?

I can tell you why that is so and has already been on these boards. In short, they arouse the spiritual experience through carnal desire and so fornicate their own spiritual virginity never to complete their race and die in the desert with the unresolved paradox sinful yet saved. They will have been "from their mother's womb untimely ripped," as Shakespeare put it.

The evangelists are the evil ones who "tug" on this spiritual hymen (your intergity as an individual) and when they sway you to "accept Jesus Christ as your personal savior" they will have forced a rebirth upon you to the same extent as they had to seduce your with the lewd promise of eternal slavation.

They monger amonst Catholics because Catholics are clay and as such receptive towards such evangelistic persuasion. They are clay and must remain clay for God himself to do his saving work and so Catholics must be protected from such wolves that work amongst the sheep.

Buddhism does not do this and protestants do it only because they do not know what they are doing but only know that they are doing.

I'll stop here.

Amos

Sakpo

Missionaries the lowest kind of scum? I think the Chinese authorities are a lot worse. People should have the right to express and promote their beliefs as long as they are not trying to cause violence. It really sickens me that anybody could sympathize with the oppressive Chinese government on this one.
I might disagree with the missionaries on just about everything, but it doesn't make me think they don't deserve their human rights just like anybody else.

alek0

Well, I for one symphatize a lot more with Falun Gong. 30 people (foreigners) have been arrested in Beijing in the last couple of days for protesting at Tienanmen and nobody gives a damn. But if it was one bible smuggler, than its entirely different matter.

Again, I don't approve totalitarian regimes in any shape or form. Concerning chinese goverment, I don't think they are treating missionaries any worse than would any western goverment treat some weird cultists (apart from police brutality which is unfortunately fact of life in China and applies to all). It is only that their definition of cult is more broad than usual.

Krieger

"Well, I for one symphatize a lot more with Falun Gong. 30 people (foreigners) have been arrested in Beijing in the last couple of days for protesting at Tienanmen and nobody gives a damn. But if it was one bible smuggler, than its entirely different matter."

Thats a great point, alek0. It shows that the majority of people whining about China's stance on religious freedoms is the far-right wing fundies that want to convert the entire world into to believing their twisted shit.

Sakpo

I prettymuch feel about the Falun Gong the way I do about Christianity. I don't like it (mainly for its incredibly homophobic stance) but I don't think its suppression in China is the right way it should be combatted at all. For what its worth the Falun Gong get a lot more news coverage here in Canada then the Xtian missionaries.