Freethought & Rationalism Archive

lisarea · 07-24-2003, 03:35 PM

It wasn't a student, and it was bombs, not guns, but the worst instance of school violence in the US (maybe anywhere) was in Bath Michigan, in 1927.

Bath School Bombing

Of course, it'd be easier to refute the idiot's points if he actually bothered making a point precise enough to be refutable. The claims add up, pretty much, to "I can feel it in my bones."

Jewel · 07-24-2003, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DigitalChicken
I don't know were there? I recall a case where a kid blew up part of his school which resulted in the largest death toll at an american school ever. That was in the 20s if i am not mistaken.

DC

Are you speaking of the The Bath School Bombing in 1927? If so, it was an adult that did that.

Here's another link to that incident from www.crimelibrary.com that tells the story in 8 chapters. I haven't made my way through all of it yet.

Another article here

Mageth · 07-24-2003, 03:46 PM

He ain't much of an Almighty God if the Supreme Court Justices can collectively kick him out of school. Sounds like a wimp, to me. Did they seal him up in one of those panes and shoot him off into space like Superman did to the villians in Superman II (was that the one)?

I say that in jest but, if God is who Xians say he is, would he really leave all the schools just because the courts (allegedly) "kicked him out"? "Allegedly", because saying the court rulings "expelled" God from schools expresses a gross misunderstanding of the law.

tribalbeeyatch · 07-24-2003, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by McDuffie
1. There has been a marked increase in school violence

2. There has been a marked increase in drug use

3. There has been less respect for parents and teachers.

In short, every measurement of the morals of a successful society has been on the decline since God was expelled.

So that's an exhaustive list of the means for measuring "the morals of a successful society" then?

Quote:

I don't have the research on hand, but I can guarantee you that there were no school shootings before the Supreme Court took a left turn.

When would you suppose this guy thinks the Supreme Court took a left turn? The earliest school shooting I could dig up was 1974.

Stephen Maturin · 07-24-2003, 03:48 PM

And, of course, the Bath School bombing happened in the wake of Abraham Lincoln's spur-of-the-moment decision to utter the words "under God" during the Gettysburg Address, a wake that also included the two bloodiest years of war ever seen in North America and a whole century of violent and brutally oppressive state-sanctioned racism.

"You can argue Scripture all day long, but you cannot dispute these salient and incontravertable facts."

Too bad the principal "salient and incontroverable fact" - the one that forms the basis for all this post hoc nonsense - isn't a fact at all. The notion that God actually has been expelled from schools is patently false. But hey, don't take my word for it. Check out the U.S. Department of Education's Guide on Constitutionally Protected Prayer in Public Elementary and Secondary Schools.

Rusting Car Bumper · 07-24-2003, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jewel
Are you speaking of the The Bath School Bombing in 1927? If so, it was an adult that did that.

It was still in a school.

DC

Mageth · 07-24-2003, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DigitalChicken
I recall a case where a kid blew up part of his school which resulted in the largest death toll at an american school ever. That was in the 20s if i am not mistaken.
DC

The death toll of the Bath School Bombing pales in comparison to the New London School Disaster in New London, TX, March 18, 1937, where approximately 300 students, teachers, and other school employees died. But New London was accidental, not intentional (but still, if God wasn't yet expelled, why did he let this happen?)

Jewel · 07-24-2003, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DigitalChicken
It was still in a school.

DC

Indeed. And arguably the worst in US history.

Mageth · 07-24-2003, 04:08 PM

How exactly is God supposed to keep armed assailants and bombers out of schools if nine unarmed, elderly Justices can run Him out? I recommend metal detectors and security guards.

McD · 07-24-2003, 04:24 PM

Yeah, it was still in a school--but???

I think it depends on what this guy and this type of person thinks on the matter. Do they think that the mere fact that coerced prayer is being done in schools means that schools enjoy God's protection from things like the truck bomb and the incident in London? Or do they think that the students will not commit violence if only the school would force them to pray. In other words, do they think that the students who would have committed violent acts refrain from doing so after they are led in prayer?

This was the christian school shooting to which I referred:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
March 7th, 2001: A student in Williamsport PA, Kimberly Marchese, 13, was shot in the right shoulder, allegedly by a fellow 14 year old student. The next day, she was in stable condition in hospital. Unlike essentially all previous school shootings and murders, this one does not appear to be as a result of long-term harassment and marginalization of the perpetrator; it seems to have been caused by a long-standing argument between the two students. Also unlike previous shootings, this was not at a public school; it was at the Bishop Newmann Junior-Senior High School, a parochial school. Williamsport is in central Pennsylvania.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Certainly that young lady was led in prayer that morning and did not refrain from violence and certainly God did not intervene or act as an umbrella against the violence.

Furthermore, do they not have some 'splaining to do Lucy with regards to prayer outside of school or private prayers IN the school? I find it difficult to believe that the morning of the Columbine shooting not one single Christian said a heartfelt prayer to God beseaching him to protect the students that day. Not a single faculty member, student or parent prayed for the safety of the children that day. Is that what we are supposed to believe?

By the way, I invite you all to join Yahoo's Atheist vs Christian chatroom. It is in the religion section and it is a so-called "user room". Stimulating debate in there a lot of the time and interesting conversation almost all of the time.

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07-24-2003, 03:35 PM	#11
lisarea Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Broomfield, Colorado, USA Posts: 5,550	It wasn't a student, and it was bombs, not guns, but the worst instance of school violence in the US (maybe anywhere) was in Bath Michigan, in 1927. Bath School Bombing Of course, it'd be easier to refute the idiot's points if he actually bothered making a point precise enough to be refutable. The claims add up, pretty much, to "I can feel it in my bones."

07-24-2003, 03:46 PM	#13
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	He ain't much of an Almighty God if the Supreme Court Justices can collectively kick him out of school. Sounds like a wimp, to me. Did they seal him up in one of those panes and shoot him off into space like Superman did to the villians in Superman II (was that the one)? I say that in jest but, if God is who Xians say he is, would he really leave all the schools just because the courts (allegedly) "kicked him out"? "Allegedly", because saying the court rulings "expelled" God from schools expresses a gross misunderstanding of the law.

07-24-2003, 03:48 PM	#15
Stephen Maturin Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Broomfield, Colorado, USA Posts: 1,295	And, of course, the Bath School bombing happened in the wake of Abraham Lincoln's spur-of-the-moment decision to utter the words "under God" during the Gettysburg Address, a wake that also included the two bloodiest years of war ever seen in North America and a whole century of violent and brutally oppressive state-sanctioned racism. "You can argue Scripture all day long, but you cannot dispute these salient and incontravertable facts." Too bad the principal "salient and incontroverable fact" - the one that forms the basis for all this post hoc nonsense - isn't a fact at all. The notion that God actually has been expelled from schools is patently false. But hey, don't take my word for it. Check out the U.S. Department of Education's Guide on Constitutionally Protected Prayer in Public Elementary and Secondary Schools.

07-24-2003, 04:08 PM	#19
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	How exactly is God supposed to keep armed assailants and bombers out of schools if nine unarmed, elderly Justices can run Him out? I recommend metal detectors and security guards.

07-24-2003, 04:24 PM	#20
McD Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Pueblo, CO Posts: 1,794	Yeah, it was still in a school--but??? I think it depends on what this guy and this type of person thinks on the matter. Do they think that the mere fact that coerced prayer is being done in schools means that schools enjoy God's protection from things like the truck bomb and the incident in London? Or do they think that the students will not commit violence if only the school would force them to pray. In other words, do they think that the students who would have committed violent acts refrain from doing so after they are led in prayer? This was the christian school shooting to which I referred: quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- March 7th, 2001: A student in Williamsport PA, Kimberly Marchese, 13, was shot in the right shoulder, allegedly by a fellow 14 year old student. The next day, she was in stable condition in hospital. Unlike essentially all previous school shootings and murders, this one does not appear to be as a result of long-term harassment and marginalization of the perpetrator; it seems to have been caused by a long-standing argument between the two students. Also unlike previous shootings, this was not at a public school; it was at the Bishop Newmann Junior-Senior High School, a parochial school. Williamsport is in central Pennsylvania. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Certainly that young lady was led in prayer that morning and did not refrain from violence and certainly God did not intervene or act as an umbrella against the violence. Furthermore, do they not have some 'splaining to do Lucy with regards to prayer outside of school or private prayers IN the school? I find it difficult to believe that the morning of the Columbine shooting not one single Christian said a heartfelt prayer to God beseaching him to protect the students that day. Not a single faculty member, student or parent prayed for the safety of the children that day. Is that what we are supposed to believe? By the way, I invite you all to join Yahoo's Atheist vs Christian chatroom. It is in the religion section and it is a so-called "user room". Stimulating debate in there a lot of the time and interesting conversation almost all of the time.

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